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Video: Judiciary looks into Rhodes collar and Deysel throttle

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Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Certainly seems to be more of a problem at the sharks than at the other franchises. Isn't rhodes a former sharks player?

I think he was in the Sharks academy.

What I am trying to say is that lot of this is based perception, for different reasons.

Saffer perception of leniency in Australia comes from way back when Bet Tune basically got away with what looked like proven steroid use, as well as a punch right in front of the ref in a test (I remember being at the game. The crowd went ape shit). There was an outcry in SA. Forget about the facts of individual incidents. Perceptions stick as a result.

(PS I would agree that if there is one Saffer team that seems to get involved in shit off the ball and after the whistle it's the Sharks).
 
M

Maroon Army

Guest
"Bet Tune basically got away with what looked like proven steroid use"


I'm sorry, but that is just paranoid nonsense.
 

HG

Jimmy Flynn (14)
What I am trying to say is that lot of this is based perception, for different reasons.

Saffer perception of leniency in Australia comes from way back when Bet Tune basically got away with what looked like proven steroid use,

(PS I would agree that if there is one Saffer team that seems to get involved in shit off the ball and after the whistle it's the Sharks).

And Suzzie worked for SA Rugby! FFS give it a break!!!!
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
"Bet Tune basically got away with what looked like proven steroid use"


I'm sorry, but that is just paranoid nonsense.

I'm a Reds and Ben Tune fan, but to get some balance...

Actually, I can see how many non-Reds supporters have that point of view. From memory, Ben Tune was on a banned steroid masking agent. His excuse was that it was administered by a doctor for a condition (which it is). Someone screwed up somewhere along the line and didn't realise that it was on the banned list, and didn't apply for a TUA, or use some other product. Both Ben Tune and his doctor should have known better and checked. Ben Tune actually got off lightly for taking a banned masking agent but he did definitely have mitigating circumstances.

The fact that most people will see is, Ben Tune took a banned substance (masking agent) and got off.
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
I'm a Reds and Ben Tune fan, but to get some balance...

Actually, I can see how many non-Reds supporters have that point of view. From memory, Ben Tune was on a banned steroid masking agent. His excuse was that it was administered by a doctor for a condition (which it is). Someone screwed up somewhere along the line and didn't realise that it was on the banned list, and didn't apply for a TUA, or use some other product. Both Ben Tune and his doctor should have known better and checked. Ben Tune actually got off lightly for taking a banned masking agent but he did definitely have mitigating circumstances.

The fact that most people will see is, Ben Tune took a banned substance (masking agent) and got off.
He should have said his mum gave it to him
 
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cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
It was Probenecid, which is given as an adjuvant treatment sometimes with antibiotics, perticularly penicillin-based antibiotics to increase their efficacy. If I recall, he was being treated for a knee infection, so penicillin based antibiotics were likely to be prescribed. It also can mask the presence of certain drugs in your system, such as some anabolic steroids. The innocent explanation makes far more sense here than the conspiracy theory.
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Saffer perception of leniency in Australia comes from way back when Bet Tune basically got away with what looked like proven steroid use,


Moot point Blue. What's their perceptoin of Chiliboy Ralepelle and Bjorn Basson.

I think it is essential we get respected ex players alongside the silks on the judicary boards.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
It was Probenecid, which is given as an adjuvant treatment sometimes with antibiotics, perticularly penicillin-based antibiotics to increase their efficacy. If I recall, he was being treated for a knee infection, so penicillin based antibiotics were likely to be prescribed. It also can mask the presence of certain drugs in your system, such as some anabolic steroids. The innocent explanation makes far more sense here than the conspiracy theory.

Guys, I am not arguing facts. Relax. No need to defend Tune. You guys think he was unfairly labelled, Saffers think he was a prize dick who got off scott free. There is zero point trying to argue that facts with one another.

I am saying that one country will vilify the sportmen of another because that's what we humans do.

Cyclo you miss my point. For Saffers there was no conspiracy theory. There were "facts" as reported in the local media and it came shortly after an SA player got banned for Steroids so the whole thing was labelled "look how we ban our players and they get theirs off on technicalities." It would have been the same thing had the roles been reversed.

What was the thread about again?
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Guys, I am not arguing facts. Relax. No need to defend Tune. You guys think he was unfairly labelled, Saffers think he was a prize dick who got off scott free. There is zero point trying to argue that facts with one another.

I am saying that one country will vilify the sportmen of another because that's what we humans do.

Cyclo you miss my point. For Saffers there was no conspiracy theory. There were "facts" as reported in the local media and it came shortly after an SA player got banned for Steroids so the whole thing was labelled "look how we ban our players and they get theirs off on technicalities." It would have been the same thing had the roles been reversed.

What was the thread about again?

I'm sorry, I thought he was being used as an example of something sinister which went unpunished. My bad. Just trying to add some background info to the debate. As you were.

Damn, Moses, I only just appreciated the wit of your thread title. Nice work, by the way!! :)
 
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qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
So the Sharks can take revenge on the Force for Ndungane being dropped on his head ("he could have died you know")

Come on. Don't get silly now. Maybe Carter will try to tackle a bit harded the next time they play but vigilantism? Don't be silly.

Don't remember Sidey saying to Ndungane, "next time I'll break your fucking neck"

One was an accident, the other was not.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
I'm sorry, I thought he was being used as an example of something sinister which went unpunished. My bad. Just trying to add some background info to the debate. As you were.

Damn, Moses, I only just appreciated the wit of your thread title. Nice work, by the way!! :)

Kudos, a good one there.

Also agree with earlier posters that we need to look at some sort of points system to get consistency within the Rugby judiciaries.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Kudos, a good one there.

Also agree with earlier posters that we need to look at some sort of points system to get consistency within the Rugby judiciaries.

How hard can it be? Centralising the system has its issues but surely a peer review and voting system applied to each case can't be rocket science?

SARU needs to wake the hell up.
 
R

Redsfan

Guest
So, I haven't read the thread in its entirety , but did anyone else notice that the actions of the saffer players were disturbingly similar? I mean, they both dragged and flipped an opposition player out of the ruck by the neck, the difference being that Deysel held on. They were from different teams, though I wonder whether or not there's a wrestling coach type consultant who's floating around the franchises there, similar to the ones the NRL uses...
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
So, I haven't read the thread in its entirety , but did anyone else notice that the actions of the saffer players were disturbingly similar? I mean, they both dragged and flipped an opposition player out of the ruck by the neck, the difference being that Deysel held on. They were from different teams, though I wonder whether or not there's a wrestling coach type consultant who's floating around the franchises there, similar to the ones the NRL uses...
:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Sport24
SANZAR: No precedent set

Johannesburg - SANZAR’s decision not to impose any punishment on Highlanders wing Siale Piutau for retaliatory punching does not constitute a precedent that could come back to haunt the organisation, CEO Greg Peters said on Wednesday.

VIDEO: Michael Rhodes's dangerous tackle

VIDEO: Jean Deysel's dangerous tackle

There has been widespread unhappiness that Piutau was exonerated of any sanction despite being found guilty by a SANZAR tribunal of foul play. Lions flank Michael Rhodes received a six-match ban for a “dangerous headlock” on the Highlanders wing, which prompted Piutau to plant two punches to the back of Rhodes’s head.

A fight broke out as a result of the incident and Piutau is seen throwing another punch in the melee, but despite it being unlawful to retaliate and punching considered an offence, the wing was not handed any ban at all.

Judicial officer Nick Davidson said Piutau had escaped sanction because of "the exceptional circumstances" of the incident. "While the player admitted to foul play he had been seriously compromised in the incident involving Rhodes," he said.

"Piutau's reaction was that of someone who had been seriously endangered (and) to impose a sanction in these circumstances would not reflect the effect on Piutau of the incident and a reaction that was the product of shock rather than retaliatory intent."

There has been much concern that SANZAR have now created a precedent whereby retaliation can be a defence in a hearing, based on “shock” rather than “intent”.

But SANZAR CEO Peters denies this, saying while the decision was bold, it was a fair one which the SANZAR hierarchy supported.

“The Judicial officer was clear in his final decision that there was mitigating circumstances, and this allowed him to exercise discretion, as he can in terms of Regulation 17, and not impose a penalty,” Peters said. “He believed, after viewing the evidence, that it was more a reaction out of shock and that there was no retaliatory intent. This is clearly not a precedent, as there have been sanctions for striking before.

“The judicial officer acknowledged it was foul play, and as we have seen before, a punch thrown on the field doesn’t always result in a red card. There was a Reds player a few weeks back that also escaped sanction for punching and it is the nature of the circumstances. It isn’t a clear cut situation and it was mitigated by the extraordinary circumstances.”

Peters also rejected claims in some quarters that there was a bias against South African players by SANZAR judiciaries, but said there could be more consistency in decisions by the Southern Hemisphere governing body.

“There have been three cases in South Africa, cited by a South African citing commissioner, that were rejected by a South African judicial officer. We always do strive for consistency, and it is something we are constantly working on.

“It is not that one country is disadvantaged, but the nature of the process is that once you take it across countries and there are more people involved, there is subjectivity that comes into play. We are trying our best to make it a process of consistent subjectivity.”

Peters said he had confidence in the various citing commissioners but said there needed to be a more consistent dealing of punishment.

“We view the weekly citing reports of the incidence and we have the confidence in the citing commissioners that they are doing a good job in all three countries. The referred penalty by the judiciaries is more of a concern for us.”
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
So, I haven't read the thread in its entirety , but did anyone else notice that the actions of the saffer players were disturbingly similar? I mean, they both dragged and flipped an opposition player out of the ruck by the neck, the difference being that Deysel held on. They were from different teams, though I wonder whether or not there's a wrestling coach type consultant who's floating around the franchises there, similar to the ones the NRL uses...

hulk-hogan.jpg


Whatcha gonna do when the ruck rollers come after you!

:)
 
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