• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Turner to the 7s

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tranquility

Guest
I don't buy that Rugbywhisperer and I think you would struggle to find any athletic academic article that would back up that argument.

People who are born to run at elite levels do not just forget or lose that ability. Athletics is one of those rare sports where natural ability is the limiting factor, you can train your arse off and be the most diligent performer off the track but the bloke with more ability will still beat you every time. It is a cruel sport like that, and and those same limiting factors do not cross-over with rugby at all.
 
T

tranquility

Guest
also in relation to Kurtley winning the GPS 100m, how old was he? surely it wasn't the open event? It just doesn't add up.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
also in relation to Kurtley winning the GPS 100m, how old was he? surely it wasn't the open event? It just doesn't add up.

I thought I put this schoolboy sprinting ability of Beale to bed; so I think I'll have to copy this reply to paste in the future when it crops up again.

It wasn't the Opens. The faster boys who were in the same qualifying year as him were in the Opens - or running a year up. I forget which year he won, but if you look at some of the fast GPS rugby players he played with or against in his last 2 years of 3 in the Joeys 1st XV: Peter Betham, Lachlan Turner, Lachlan Rosengreen, Chris Yarrington, they were all faster than he was. I could come up with some other names if I looked things up.

Another thing I don't have to look up, because I heard Pete Betham and Kurtley joshing about it when they were younger: is that they were born on the same day. The point? Betham is heaps faster than Kurtley - always has been and barring medial setbacks, always will be.

Again, no more talk about Beale the sprinter please.

That is all.

.
 

#1 Tah

Chilla Wilson (44)
Ok guys. Turner is in camp with the 7s squad now, while still doing training for Eastwood and the Wallabies. He is available for selection for the 3N. End of story. No argument.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Turner looked a bit dusty at Rat Park today and had to go off sooky about a shoulder and was carrying an arm; but he came back on so there must have been a blood get out clause; so he's probably right for 7s.

PS Beale is fast enough off the mark as the ABC showed when they were at Coogee today. Put him in a 20 metre race and I'd back him for a place.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
I don't buy that Rugbywhisperer and I think you would struggle to find any athletic academic article that would back up that argument. (you picked the wrong person for this debate) People who are born to run at elite levels do not just forget or lose that ability (yes they do). Athletics is one of those rare sports where natural ability is the limiting factor, (but sprinting needs very specific work to stay in top form) you can train your arse off and be the most diligent performer off the track but the bloke with more ability will still beat you every time.(you can't turn slow twitch into fast twitch but they certainly can go the other way if not trained). It is a cruel sport like that, and those same limiting factors do not cross-over with rugby at all (wrong).[/QUOTE]

No - definitely not so. As a sprint coach I can testify to that effect.
Sprinting is probably the most fickle and difficult of the athletic pursuits to maintain top performance. Everything needs to be 110% right or top speed isn't reached and this must be maintained all the way through the training season.
The reason for this is that naturally a body (read fast twitch muscles) will degenerate without specific work. While the natural sprinters have an ability to be faster than those without the fast twitch capability, (all the training in the world cannot make a slow person fast - you are correct in that statement) the speed does degrade quite quickly without the specific training. Naturals as you call them will keep the majority (90%) of their speed for a while but the longer they don’t do specific work the greater the degradation of the fast twitch capability. Have you ever seen a retired sprinter. Not like an endurance runner – they go all blobbish over an extended period of time if they are not careful.
A top sprinter who rests for say one month can take up to 3 – 4 months to regain that top speed. Top speed doesn't hang around. You use it or lose it and fast twitch muscles need constant, very specific stimulation to remain in top form. Additionally they don't remain in top form forever. They like all soft tissue need regeneration so even top sprinters have times on and times off (long and short recovery). Recovery is a very misunderstood and underrated facet of sports training.
So a player like Turner while keeping the bulk of his speed through everyday training would, by not doing fast twitch specific work would drop his top speed by as much as 8% - 12% easily.
Every athletics season the top runners don't perform at top speed straight off - they need build up time and that entails speed specific training. Sprint season training needs very specific scheduling for the various facets of the work culminating in very exact speed work when approaching the peak end of the season. That is why championships are not held at the beginning of the season. During that very speed specific training they normally would NOT do any other form of training.
For a top rugby player, that speed specific training has to be sacrificed for team training, skills, endurance (which always degrades speed) games and all the other stuff demanded of the top players these days. Imagine telling the coach that you can't train for 2 days because your muscles need to be rested.
Additionally, speed specific work is very demanding and exact and just cannot be done when an athlete feels like it as in endurance or handling training. You cannot do effective speed specific training when fatigued or tired. It doesn't work. For it to be effective training the athlete normally would have not done any training in the previous 36-48 hours before and similar recovery period after the training. Any training in that recovery period would in all effect totally negate any speed work that was done. Period. No debate. Also, speed sessions when done at peak speed cover no more than 300-450m of sprint work. It is very short, sharp and effective. Elite sprinters would do no more than 2, maybe at a pinch 3 speed sessions a week in peak training so that leaves very little time for other rugby training which if done in that recovery period would severely impact on the speed of the athlete.
Rant over
.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
Davies wouldn't even register a breath on Deans's Wallaby radar. He needs to actually do something first.

I see it this way - Davies is a sprinter playing rugby.
Deans needs a Rugby player with fast sprint speed.
 

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
I see it this way - Davies is a sprinter playing rugby.
Deans needs a Rugby player with fast sprint speed.

Jesus Christ, what do you expect a rugby player to do? And a winger for that matter? Cure AIDS, world hunger and poverty from the wing? Be capable of playing every position from prop to fullback? Be the goddamn coach?

Davies is every bit a rugby player (he is a winger, duh!) and if you can't see that you are the most delusional Waratah supporter of all time, please keep your state vs state stuff off the internet please.
Remember Davies is a winger! He runs fast, scores tries for fun, supporters his runners inside him, he runs very fast, makes the odd tackle and keeps his line in defence, and basically he is the guy who is going to score you tries and win games. Rugby is a very simple game - get to the other end of the field and score! Davies helps this simple game keep true to what it is, and therefore I prefer to watch him everyday of the week over Turner...and the Waratahs.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
Jesus Christ, what do you expect a rugby player to do? And a winger for that matter? Cure AIDS, world hunger and poverty from the wing? Be capable of playing every position from prop to fullback? Be the goddamn coach?
Davies is every bit a rugby player (he is a winger, duh!) and if you can't see that you are the most delusional Waratah supporter of all time, please keep your state vs state stuff off the internet please.
Remember Davies is a winger! He runs fast, scores tries for fun, supporters his runners inside him, he runs very fast, makes the odd tackle and keeps his line in defence, and basically he is the guy who is going to score you tries and win games. Rugby is a very simple game - get to the other end of the field and score! Davies helps this simple game keep true to what it is, and therefore I prefer to watch him everyday of the week over Turner...and the Waratahs.

No, that's just the way I see him. Just an opinion, nothing more. I see more of a rugby player in Luke Morahan than in Davies.
That's all. No need to get narky.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Davies is every bit a rugby player (he is a winger, duh!) and if you can't see that you are the most delusional Waratah supporter of all time

It is so silly to call whispers a Tahs fan that it's almost funny. There is such a thing as an expert opinion that is unfavourable to a player in the team you support, especially if you are an expert on the matter inquestion.

Interesting stuff whispers - enjoyed it. I will save it to use it in the future so that I can sound clever.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
It is so silly to call whispers a Tahs fan that it's almost funny. There is such a thing as an expert opinion that is unfavourable to a player in the team you support, especially if you are an expert on the matter inquestion.
Interesting stuff whispers - enjoyed it. I will save it to use it in the future so that I can sound clever.

Thanks Lee. You hit it on the head.
 
T

tranquility

Guest
The wank value on this forum is increasing exponentially.

In regards to your rather bloated post Rugbywhisperer it is my opinion that you are blowing alot of hot air because you are embarrassed. The amount of speed specific training you are alluding too would be relative to an elite runner trying to build a solid base of power endurance before a big competition before tapering off and thus recovering before maximum output. However this type of training is non essential for a rugby player.

Rod Davies is not a 'sprinter playing rugby' he has been an elite Rugby player his entire life and was poached by Wayne Bennett while at IGS for this very fact.

I would be very interested in finding out what level of sprint coach you are because I was actually a fairly reasonable athlete and won more than one event at GPS in my final year. To avoid contributing to the wank value I will private message you to find out whats what.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top