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Tri Nations Game 4 South Africa v Australia - Saturday 13 August 2011 - 3N2011

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whatty

Bob Loudon (25)
I guess with the history of scrummaging you will take any victory however small.

But I guess it was fun to watch and just topped off a miserable day for the Boks so as a Wallaby fan you had to enjoy it.

I understand fully the AUS enjoyment of THAT scrum but give it a few weeks and it will be in all likely hood be used by some fan as "Remember how we monsterd the SA scrum in that match..."

Was that scrum not when J,Smith did his injury?

The whole day I have been thinking how sad it is to see Smith in this position and how in general most supporters just "feel sorry for him".

Not good.

But it also proved this match as to how far ahead the AB's are. Loose this RWC and they will have to make a choker tag for "New Zealand conditions"!
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
IBut it also proved this match as to how far ahead the AB's are. Loose this RWC and they will have to make a choker tag for "New Zealand conditions"!

And if they win it will prove they can only win the RWC when they have a home ground advantage!
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Congrats to the Wallabies and supporters on a well grafted win. My Wallaby MOTM is Nathan Sharpe, fuck knows why he wasnt pick earlier.

Regarding the Springbokke myself obvious disappointed with that second half performances but enough positives coming out of this test. Much improved since the last one and if they can improve the same amount for this weekend I'd be more then satisfied. For me I want to see Brussouw, Battleship and Schalkie starting. I dont care much about the rest but dont want to see Smit playing prop ever again. Guthro Steenkamp the Boishaai GalPil is lucky to be still in the Bok group. Greyling and Coenie will be much better options. Players like Beast, Matfield, Bakkies, Spies, FdP, Butch, Jean, Jac, Habana & JP can only improve from here. Peaking now can be very dangerous with the WC looming. I saw enough in that first half to have faith and believe in the Springbok to retain that WC.
 

Nelse

Chris McKivat (8)
Funnily enough, and this is just my opinion, but to me it wasn't the strongest game Sharpe's ever had in the Gold Jersey. Still head and shoulders above how he used to play, but the runs he had didn't get as far over the advantage line as say Moore or Horwill. Lineouts he was solid as always and he and Horwill did well in the scrums, but still, compared with his game in Sydney it didn't provide the decisive "That's why I own this lock jersey" that he needed to show to keep Simmons, Vicks et. al. on the bench or out of the squad.

Horwill was my MotM.

Totally agree with the reviews of Bryce Lawrences game that are going round too. Having watched the France Ireland game, it doesn't seem like the refs are too concerned with linouts going straight..
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Funnily enough, and this is just my opinion, but to me it wasn't the strongest game Sharpe's ever had in the Gold Jersey. Still head and shoulders above how he used to play, but the runs he had didn't get as far over the advantage line as say Moore or Horwill. Lineouts he was solid as always and he and Horwill did well in the scrums, but still, compared with his game in Sydney it didn't provide the decisive "That's why I own this lock jersey" that he needed to show to keep Simmons, Vicks et. al. on the bench or out of the squad.

Horwill was my MotM.

Totally agree with the reviews of Bryce Lawrences game that are going round too. Having watched the France Ireland game, it doesn't seem like the refs are too concerned with linouts going straight..

Horwill stats in the test dont compare with Sharpe. The Boks wanted to dominate the lineout , thats where we want to play from and Sharpe is always much more then a thread then any other lock the Wallabies have. Maybe we look at two different games.

He is the one name myself dont want to see in a Wallabie team against the Bokke and not even the All Blacks have his ability comes lineouts.
 
R

Richard D. James

Guest
I think what most were calling for all through the S15 is the right lock combo for us. Horwill and Sharpe to start and Simmons on the bench. Don't think Vickerman should be there. I would be happy with those locks in our 22. You would mostly swap Simmons for Sharpe as a like for like swap but could pull of Horwill if needed.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Just had a look at rugby stats and the 2 locks look pretty close to me. With different strengths of course.
http://www.ruggastats.com/games.aspx?G=327
It show Sharpe had the same work rate. The way he counter our line outs was impressive. matfield havent dominate at all and Sharpe should get the credit for that. If we get our lineout to dominate , we usually use our lineout drive. It failed miserably in this test.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Parrl I was pointing it out to our guys. There is a lot of Horwill love here. And not much for Sharpe. Horwill was good but so was Sharpe. And I am not a Sharpe fan at all.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Sharpie was good on the weekend, of that there can be no doubt. Horwill, however, has been magnificent for two weeks running for mine. No reflection on Sharpe, but Kev was just that little bit better.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Horwill stats in the test dont compare with Sharpe. The Boks wanted to dominate the lineout , thats where we want to play from and Sharpe is always much more then a thread then any other lock the Wallabies have. Maybe we look at two different games.

He is the one name myself dont want to see in a Wallabie team against the Bokke and not even the All Blacks have his ability comes lineouts.

A couple of weeks ago I commented that the one of the best ways to rate a player was not from what his team mates or fans or even coaches thought but what his opponents thought of him. Matfield is on record as saying Sharpe is one of the best Locks in the world for his work at the Lineout and maul and the best Lock in Oz (before Horwill was established), and coming from the best Lock in the world since the retirement of Eales that is high praise indeed. The comments were the usual talk up your oppoenent bullshit from memory and were a genuine appraisal.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
IMO the Sharpe/Horwill combo is excellent and IMO the best Oz can put on the paddock.

Not many remember the locking partners of Eales but McCall, Morgan, Giffen, Bowman, Harrisson brought complimentary skills to the second row to create a solid unit.
 
R

Richard D. James

Guest
Agreed Gnostic. And you never know, maybe Deans resting Sharpe for the first two 3N games and showing that there are some locks fighting him for the starting spot was a needed kick up the bum. It certainly worked a few years ago. Deans making a tactical coaching decision that has had a positive effect? Stop the presses!
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
IMO the Sharpe/Horwill combo is excellent and IMO the best Oz can put on the paddock.

Not many remember the locking partners of Eales but McCall, Morgan, Giffen, Bowman, Harrisson brought complimentary skills to the second row to create a solid unit.

Agreed. It's good to have a balance, like the interview I read with Bakkies: the athletic lineout master and the rock shifter. Horwill is definitely the rock shifter and Sharpe the lineout general. I was a bit worried about Sharpie after the Samoa game, but he was good on the weekend.

Sharpie has suffered from being a little lazy in the past though. Having some competition will be good for him.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
One of my good mates is from Stellenbosch and he's mentioned how big schools rugby and cricket are there.

Some more from Paarl Gimnasium

our 2011 Interschools netball big brag vid
[video=youtube;ed9jtpYt6tA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed9jtpYt6tA[/video]
I'll put up the schools promo vid on my Paarl Gym thread in the schools section[video=youtube;vkGUH1lqGAA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkGUH1lqGAA&feature=related[/video]
 
J

jaydee

Guest
I think that you might see Sharpe v Boks to counter the lineout threat but Simmon v All Blacks for his breakdown physicality ( as the All Black lineout is not as much of a threat and in an all black test there are fewer lineouts as they don't kick it out as much.
I think what most were calling for all through the S15 is the right lock combo for us. Horwill and Sharpe to start and Simmons on the bench. Don't think Vickerman should be there. I would be happy with those locks in our 22. You would mostly swap Simmons for Sharpe as a like for like swap but could pull of Horwill if needed.
 
J

jaydee

Guest
Link player at 7 - ??Beau Robinson ??
The bitter irony is George Smith saw the writing on the wall that young Lazarus Pocock's rising form and freakish ability to pinch breakdown ball, that it was time to move on while still at the top.

But now with the changed law interpretation at the breakdown and the neutralisation of dominant fetchers in the modern game, George's linking game and skill set is now more relevant to the game then Pocock's.

I'm not saying George would be taking Pocock's spot if he was still around today, as Pocock's involvement in the tackle contest and breakdown are frankly astounding, sometimes it seems like there are two of him out there, but if they were both 23, it would be very interesting as to who would be wearing the #7 jersey.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Interesting post from Jake White, except for getting the knock on bit wrong

From here http://www.rugbyxv.co.za/coaches-corner/news/418-review-boks-vs-aus

Jake White reviews the Wallabies' win over the Boks and highlights some defensive flaws on Bryan Habana's wing.



There was much talk before the match and while the Boks were in Australasia of how much work had been put into the senior Boks in their camp in Rustenburg. However, it wasn't evident in Durban on Saturday. Peter de Villiers said we won the game everywhere but on the scoreboard, and no wonder he's still optimistic and 90% sure we'll win the World Cup.

Another worrying aspect that was clear during this Test is how unfit the team is. Their match fitness could've been excused in not playing in a while – which was the coach's choice – but their general fitness also isn't good enough. The fittest teams have historically won the World Cup, and that's not a good omen for these Boks. You just have to look at footage of these players in 2007 and compare that to now. You can just look at the body types of the players to notice the difference.

Much was talked about the Bok defence and the improvement we'd see, but I thought it was essentially the same standard as last year. The Wallabies dropped many balls in contact on the first phase, which meant they didn't put much pressure on the Bok defence.
Once that happens, then we'll see how the structure looks, once sides put a few phases together against them. In essence, they weren't tested.

When the game loosened up just before half-time when the Wallabies knocked on with the line beckoning, and during periods of the second half, the Boks were exposed badly. And it could've been worse, which is even more disconcerting.

Another worrying aspect is how Bryan Habana's wing is again been targeted. It's a lingering problem that has still not been solved. Last year after the Boks played Ireland, an article was written on this site, showing how Habana was being targeted. The Wallabies' try on Saturday again came on Habana's flank, and the Boks should be asking why most of the tries against them in recent times are on his side. For Pat McCabe's score, simple hands to Habana's flank gave them the try, where the winger was absent.

The substitutions were poor, which has happened before. It was unfair to move John Smit to tighthead late in the game, but with Gurthro Steenkamp on the bench and Jannie du Plessis' fitness not being backed, it was always the plan to move Smit there. It was surprising the Boks didn't realise before hand what an impact that would have, as Smit has previously struggled against Australian scrums.

The Boks' first phase was poor, which didn't give players such as Butch James a chance to show their abilities and see whether the Bok attack has improved. Bismarck du Plessis was a positive off the bench.

It's the fist time in 40 years the Boks have lost back to back home Tests against Australia, and they could for the first time lose all four Tri-Nations Tests
. They now play a weakened New Zealand side without their two best players in Richie McCaw and Dan Carter, and there's lots of pressure on the Boks.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Interesting post from Jake White, except for getting the knock on bit wrong

From here http://www.rugbyxv.co.za/coaches-corner/news/418-review-boks-vs-aus

Chavin' a ball old Jake. Sitting tens of thousands of miles away taking pot shots. Guess he has to endear himself to the Australian rugby community as he wants to ultimately coach the Wallabies.

Not that I disagree with what he's saying and all that. Factually he is 100% spot on, but it must feel good to see another guy desperately hanging on to what you created and failing. Especially if you have reasons to feel bitter.
 
T

tranquility

Guest
Why would Jake feel bitter??

Blue, did you find it interesting that all the walkie talkie communication was done by Dick Muir?? With the Clown sitting off to the side, I know it has been suggested many times before, but that might be pretty reflective of the coaching setup one might think?
 
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