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Peter Sullivan (51)
I have come to the conclusion that just as a great Super Rugby player is not necessarily a great Test player, the same may be true for coaches, maybe Deans doesn't have what it takes at Test Level.
Tri Nations Game 3 New Zealand v Australia - Saturday 6 August 2011 - 3N2011
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I have come to the conclusion that just as a great Super Rugby player is not necessarily a great Test player, the same may be true for coaches, maybe Deans doesn't have what it takes at Test Level.
Riptide
Dave Cowper (27)
Yes, and I've also seen this clip http://youtu.be/vhIPzJAwCPs
At 00:12 of the above clip, Simmons holds Weepu back to create space for Beale’s incision which leads to Ioane’s try.
At 00.45, a ruck has clearly formed but Horwill "steals" the ball. Once a ruck is formed ("where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground"), a new off-side line is established and the tackler has no rights and must re-enter through the gate. So it could be argued that Joubert really blows it it should have been penalty NZs, with Carter booting an inevitable 3 pts and not 7pts to Wallabies.
Frankly, if that was McCaw, undoubtedly there would be a video promoted by Gagger to highlight the bastard "cheat" and all refs' blindness to it, and this forum would debate McCaw's cloak of invisibility, and Paddy O'Brien's role in intimidating Jobert and other ref.
Personally, I'd like to applaud Horwill for getting away with one and understanding that Joubert's breakdown interpretations seemed a little more sympathetic to the defending team and taking advantage of it. Similarly, Simmons may have recognized Joubert's blind spot for his type of infringement (as evidenced by Weepu's hold on Cooper) and any effort to label him as a cheat should be strongly discouraged..
Shiggins
Simon Poidevin (60)
Bit late but here are some of my thoughts.
First off quades pass in touch was perfect but nonu knocked the ball on in the pass and that's why it didn't go strait to JOC (James O'Connor). Should have been a 22 drop out but saying that it would of been near on impossible for the ref to see the accidental knock. He didn't have any hope in hell holding on to the ball with so many black jumpers around.
I thought there were good signs in the game. We blew our chances simple as that. Would have been a completely different outcome if we finished the opportunities we created.
Carter and nonu just held of on tackling Cooper and when the ball went wide they were there to stop the wobs from scoring on the fringes. Inside balls were needed from pat mcabe in my opinion.
One last thing. If we held on to the ball when we were in the abz 22 instead of kicking to wingers we could have gone over alot more. We need to mix Composure with crazy stuff alot better.
Gits should come back. Just because he isn't doing what he was doing 3 years ago doesn't mean pat mcabe or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are better rugby players. Seriously Gits ATM
Is still a bit better then both of them. Especially AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)!!
Go the force!!!!
First off quades pass in touch was perfect but nonu knocked the ball on in the pass and that's why it didn't go strait to JOC (James O'Connor). Should have been a 22 drop out but saying that it would of been near on impossible for the ref to see the accidental knock. He didn't have any hope in hell holding on to the ball with so many black jumpers around.
I thought there were good signs in the game. We blew our chances simple as that. Would have been a completely different outcome if we finished the opportunities we created.
Carter and nonu just held of on tackling Cooper and when the ball went wide they were there to stop the wobs from scoring on the fringes. Inside balls were needed from pat mcabe in my opinion.
One last thing. If we held on to the ball when we were in the abz 22 instead of kicking to wingers we could have gone over alot more. We need to mix Composure with crazy stuff alot better.
Gits should come back. Just because he isn't doing what he was doing 3 years ago doesn't mean pat mcabe or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are better rugby players. Seriously Gits ATM
Is still a bit better then both of them. Especially AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)!!
Go the force!!!!
jollyswagman
Ron Walden (29)
Nice call Riptide....didn't get that far into watching the replay to see your example, but it does look like the same offence with a similar result which is a shame. It is one thing for those type of infringements to go unnoticed but when there is an obvious advantage gained and points results is sucks for all. Just to be clear, I never intended to label anyone.
Riptide
Dave Cowper (27)
Mate, I never meant to infer that at all. Wallabies need to be smarter and more streetwise in their play and take what the ref gives them. I'm encouraged when I see evidence that they are doing so. The best, most influential player in the game has being doing so for the past 10 years playing with intensity, purpose and smarts and adjusting his game to the opposition, laws and ref's interpretations
I see you're still in full crusade Riptide
Just to clarify my personal position, (which I'm not sure you've got as you've already attributed a whole bunch of videos to me that I didn't make - Scarfie's and Scott's for instance):
1) I agree with you that the Wallabies should be smarter and play harder in those grey zones. I thought the Reds did this year to good effect.
2) I think it's valid for anyone to point out where refs need to be looking harder. How teams and players "push the laws" keeps changing - we all need to keep up with it. I personally find this part of the professional game fascinating. Video analysis is a great tool here because a lot of it goes unnoticed in the hurly burly of a game. It's the sort of depth of analysis that I think makes this site different - you wont find it on Rugbyheaven for example.
3) You, and most kiwis, tell us how New Zealand, and specifically Richie McCaw is so excellent partly because he "bends the rules" (euphemism for breaks them) more than anyone else, and in so many different ways, and gets away with it. We're not just talking "grey area" at the breakdown, we're talking practised scrum and line-out moves.
Now, if you break the rules of a game (often pre-meditated) more than anyone else, what kind of label are you fairly opening yourself up to?
Being able to pick out the odd occasion ("odd occasion" because by your own admission McCaw and co do it more often i.e. "better" in your view) where other teams also break the rules doesn't negate (3), or mean that you can't discuss it, or label it for what it is.
1, 2 and 3 above all coexist together and I don't see why we should have any fear in discussing or analysing them.
[On top of that it riles the shit out of Kiwis so why wouldn't we make fun of it to boot?
]
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
I wonder if what riles some of us is the insinuation that its only McCaw that does it. Having watched that game last night there were plenty of people with gold jerseys coming in from the side etc not getting pinged. Add to this the continual allegations that Paddy O'Brian is somehow the mastermind of a great NZ conspiracy getting referees to ignore NZ infringements and its not surprising that you sometimes provoke comment. Perhaps that is the chosen sport of Wallaby supporters, but lets not pretend there is anything deep and meaningful going on here.
However, I am reliably informed that we can expect to see another video analysis of the breakdown this week, so I will await that video to see whether your video editor has a gold eye patch or not.
However, I am reliably informed that we can expect to see another video analysis of the breakdown this week, so I will await that video to see whether your video editor has a gold eye patch or not.
By 'continual allegations" you mean Bob Dwyer mentioning it twice last year?
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
Well he is the most high profile person to say it, but I've heard it from a lot more than just him in comments sections about the place. Now I don't take anything said in (eg) the comments section of Youtube particularly seriously but if you look at any discussion on NZ rugby someone will inevitably drag out the "POB's a cheat" line at some point - its a bit like Godwins law perhaps. For a laugh I happened to take a look at your "live blog" from the game the other night and this conspiracy theory was mentioned at least a couple of times as reasons why Joubert was/wasn't officiating in a certain way.
Now I am not trying to troll or provoke a fight, personally I doubt that anyone seriously thinks that Paddy's integrity is in question, but it does raise the rancour of some of us - quite justifiably some might say. Anyway we are far off subject so I shall retire from the argument
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
Paddy O'Brien couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, let alone a conspiracy. He just inflicts his half-assed ideas like that "hands-in isn't" piece of genius that tubed six months of rugby in 2009, and appoints his favourites like Bryce the Bollockless come what may because he hasn't got the brains or guts to back down.
He's not bent. He's just as inept a chief ref as he was a ref.
He's not bent. He's just as inept a chief ref as he was a ref.
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
He'll be busy punching Quade in the head when he flick passes over the goal line to no-one.
Maybe we should designate one of the outside backs, they'd be close by
and maybe we were beaten by a better team
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
agreed, but are they a better team due to thier skill levels, or preperation or a combination of both. I would say both, I think they have a little more consistant talent at Test level and the Wallabies need a coach who can turn the Wallaby talent into a consistant occurance.
I think Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale have the ability to be 3 of the greatest skilled players you will ever see, but if this skill is only on show every 5th match then it is a wasted skill. I think that this was why Link was great at the reds, he seemed to be able to get a more consistant performance from QC (Quade Cooper).
This inconsistency also has a positive, if we make the final of the World Cup and QC (Quade Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale are anywhere near 3,2 and 1 points then the Wallabies will win, but can they all fire in the same game?
The game reminded me of the State of Origins of the last few years, Aus weren't crap (like NSW) but the ABs were simply better (as is Qld)
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
Exactly how I saw it, and it seems it’s being received in the typical NSW way too. Calls to sack the coach, sack the captain, wholesale changes; but not one person willing to give credit to the opposition.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Yes, I recognise this thematic refrain so well.
2009 S14 season: Queensland rugby media, fans, etc: 'the Reds are just being beaten by better teams, it's that simple, we don't have the NZ or SA depth, etc'.
2010, more or less same Reds team as in 2009, it wasn't quite that simple after all, as the Bulls and Stormers got knocked over.
2011, we all know what happened to 2009's 'better teams'.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Well, I can't speak for the 2009 QRU - in its 2009 guise, it was an organisation I held in utter contempt. They were saying many things about their team then, some of them completely inconsistent as I recall.
But, as a big Reds fan in 2009 (and prior), I absolutely recall QLD fans and rugby media kind of giving up on the back of always being beaten by 'better teams', and that we were sort of fatalistically cast as intrinsically a 'less good team' that may never reach the heights of the best SA and NZ S14 teams as they possessed so much more depth, player numbers, bigger code base in support, etc.
You know my point don't you? It's almost always the case that 'the better team won on the day', and thus, in that sense, is/was 'the better team'. The key issue though is: can the 'less good team' (on the day or otherwise) be transformed into its own version of 'the better team' over time. And history shows: this does not necessarily and inevitably mean recruiting a whole bunch of 12-15 'better players'.
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