Tri Nations Game 3 New Zealand v Australia - Saturday 6 August 2011 - 3N2011

[Utility Back]

Cooper was absolutely hopeless, looked like a deer in headlights at times. The gap between Carter and him is immense. We have zero chance of winning the World Cup unless with have a 10 who plays with direction. The midfield struggled to have any impact as a result. Ioane was excellent. Barnes to come back at 12 with McCabe/ACC/Horne at 13.

WHat really? After one game? After international season he had last year? and the Super rugby performances for the last 2 years including being an integral part of a super rugby championship? All of sudden, he's hopeless, no direction and we cant win with him? Get some perspective brother, the All Blacks were immense and he was trying to spark something, lots of it silly, but he was under all sorts of pressure. Our forwards we lacking ferocity and the all blacks were just all over us and he was running backwards most of the time. He'll come good, and easy our best 10 in the country as he's proven this year.

 

[pissedoffihavetoregister]

i thought we did ok. Our side still has some improvement - tpn, mitchell and hopefully palu.
We only beat them 1 out of 4 last year. We only have to beat them 1 out of 3 this year and we will be heroes.

I love animals - their delicious

 

[Swarley]

How do you know any of this? Have you been to the Wallabies training camp and attended these sessions? I just find it a bit rich of a conclusion in desperate search for a scapegoat when almost all of us have no inside knowledge to support the claim. Watching last night I guess you'd also suggest O'Connor has never trained his goal kicking with his 0% effort too right?

Well for a start, Deans has said on multiple occasions that the game plan is to 'play what's in front of us [The Wallabies]', so we can establish that there's not a whole lot of structure. We know that the Reds had a basic gameplan that had margin for error/room for movement/some degree of improvisation- whatever you want to call it. All I'm saying is that without any structure I think Quade is a lot more sporadic in terms of making smart decisions. The enhanced quality of opposition, especially the pressure forced by Nonu and the AB's back-row, contributes to that. I'm not desperately looking for a scapegoat, but I do think that some serious questions need to be asked about Deans if we come home from New Zealand in October with nothing to show for our 4-year 'rebuilding phase'.

And of course I don't think O'Connor has had no training. Every goal kicker has off nights- maybe it was that or maybe the pressure mounted by the media/score-line/RWC preparations caused that.

 

[jollyswagman]

I saw this last night and I think I'm right but does anyone else think this is a knock on by Sivivatu?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzFqcRMfD78&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL at 14:22 when Quade does his cross field kick Sivivatu grabs at it, his hand rolls over it (Possible knock on) then at 14:24 he has the ball in his hands and puts it down forward. The touch judge is right there with a good view the whole time as well. Then Muliaina plays the ball on the ground Reid and Sivivatu are lying on the ball and the touch judge has a perfect view of it all.

Yes, it wasn't kosher for a few reasons IMHO. I believe he knocked it on at first. The he released and played at the ball again before getting to his feet. Should have been AUS scrum or penalty. Not sure what the proper interpretation of the law is but I am not a fan of players sealing the ball like that (see Read & Nonu). I feel those players need to stay on their feet or they are effective "out of play."

 

[jollyswagman]

Anyone catch this during the game?.......watch how Cooper is taken out of play and held down while Weepu darts up the sideline. 3 or 4 quick phases later they scored try #1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8kvN82xUZ8&t=4m8s

Don't think it was premeditated by any stretch, more so sloppy refereeing.

 

[Gnostic]

TOCC Aussie rugby is full of pessimists. There is something about relatively wealthy 50 and 60 somethings that just makes them grumpy old bastards who predict the ABs to beat us by 30 and then take a degree of pleasure to see us lose.

I watched with one such type, who after the ABs got up 10-0 predicted that the ABs would get to 80. Points not minutes. After the game I said I thought the scoreline flattered the ABs, he vehemently disagreed and said we deserved to lose by 50. Whilst I may be a bit on the optimistic side (as most younger fans tend to be) his constant negativity really gave me the shits.

Barbarian you have already openly admitted that even given the chance to critically apraise any situation you will by choice look for the bright side. Those of us "relatively wealthy" pessimists (and I nearer 30 than 50 thank you) as you label us are not so much pessimistic as passionate Rugby people who also bring a hard nose analysis to the table. All the Rugby people I associate with are also successful business people and you don't get there by being optimistic in the face of all reasonable evidence. Likewise you don't get there being a pessimist because such people do not take chances and are unable to test themseleves or innovate. A balanced view and a willingness to change what needs to be changed without fear or favour is what drives success in the vast majority of cases.

I also get shitty with un-founded negativity but I also get just as frustrated and feel rather contemptuous of un-founded optimism that things just aren't that bad or will miraculously get better without actually doing something about it.

 

[Reddy!]

It's pretty evident after that game that the Wallabies beat an old South African team only just last year and beat the All Blacks in a dead rubber match only just as well, and didn't do much else last year. Meaningless wins in the scheme of things given how they have built on those wins this year. So when there are prizes on the table again, the All Blacks steamroll us with no problems.

 

[Richo]

Brown Hornet put it beautifully. I don't know that the Wallabies could have been beaten the NZ side last night no matter how well they played -- the Kiwi defense was just amazing. Sure, we can all point to stats or say that 3 penalties were missed or that it was 2 tries to 3 or whatever, but the reality is that in that game we got monstered in the first 25 minutes, and could not convert territory, possession, and goal line pressure into points.

I'm still optimistic about our prospects going forward, just increasingly doubtful that the team has the attitude, leadership and strategy to achieve what it could.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I’ve watched the game about twice now & my thoughts are:

Our restarts were not so good. I do believe Sharpe would’ve made a difference there & a few other areas.

I thought our forwards did get forward but not enough & not as much as the AB’s did.

Although we had lots of territory & ball & didn’t covert it into points its still encouraging to me that at least we had that much possession & territory.

I don’t like the AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and McCabe pairing, they are solid players but I’m thinking we need Barnes, Horne, or A. Fainga'a any two of those guys in those spots. I’m a fan of McCabe’s strong running but of the other options I’d prefer those.

Forwards wise we need TPN even though Moore is playing really well & I’d like to see Higgenbotham have a start. I liked what I saw of Vickerman.

Quade didn’t have the best of nights but I don’t want him to change his attacking intent, his kicks to Diggers, Beale, & O’Connor are the right intent, execution & accuracy were just a little off. Improve the accuracy & problem solved.

For mine it came down to the intense AB defence, Wallaby lack of execution when in attack & I believe we were a little overawed. It was said there were plenty of knock ons in the warm up, so I’m thinking nerves. Youth can be carefree but it can become easily unravlled when you knock the stuffing out of that youth.

All the ‘old man river’ talk about the AB’s was ridiculous by the Australian media, not the Wallabies themselves.

Full credit to the AB’s.

I am devo’ed at the loss but I’m not pushing the panic button.

 

[Dam0]

I saw this last night and I think I'm right but does anyone else think this is a knock on by Sivivatu?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzFqcRMfD78&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL at 14:22 when Quade does his cross field kick Sivivatu grabs at it, his hand rolls over it (Possible knock on) then at 14:24 he has the ball in his hands and puts it down forward. The touch judge is right there with a good view the whole time as well. Then Muliaina plays the ball on the ground Reid and Sivivatu are lying on the ball and the touch judge has a perfect view of it all.

As a Kiwi I fear I might be entering enemy territory somewhat.

There is no doubt that that should have been a penalty to Australia, Sivi clearly played the ball on his knees and Mils dived on the ball sealing it off. Having said that, in rugby you make your own luck. The Wallabies should have had 4-5 players just smashing into that breakdown and pulverising the AB's off the ball, and probably scoring a try. Allowing the AB's to win that ball, even considering the illegality is very poor, and is indicative of the difference between the two sides.

For those who are skeptical, take a look at the breakdown that emerges from the poor pass to weepu at 8:13 in this clip [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzFqcRMfD78&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL]. It is criminal that the Aussies seemed to stand off that breakdown and not throw bodies in there. When you're forcing the other team backwards you simply have to compete at the breakdowns.

The ref won't see everything (I should know - I am one) and you must make your own play.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

As a Kiwi I fear I might be entering enemy territory somewhat.

There is no doubt that that should have been a penalty to Australia, Sivi clearly played the ball on his knees and Mils dived on the ball sealing it off. Having said that, in rugby you make your own luck. The Wallabies should have had 4-5 players just smashing into that breakdown and pulverising the AB's off the ball, and probably scoring a try. Allowing the AB's to win that ball, even considering the illegality is very poor, and is indicative of the difference between the two sides.

For those who are skeptical, take a look at the breakdown that emerges from the poor pass to weepu at 8:13 in this clip [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzFqcRMfD78&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL]. It is criminal that the Aussies seemed to stand off that breakdown and not throw bodies in there. When you're forcing the other team backwards you simply have to compete at the breakdowns.

The ref won't see everything (I should know - I am one) and you must make your own play.

This was something I forgot to mention, the breakdown, I saw Alexander do some great clean outs here but you're right the Wallabies just didnt do it enough with enough players.

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

Cooper was absolutely hopeless, looked like a deer in headlights at times. The gap between Carter and him is immense. We have zero chance of winning the World Cup unless with have a 10 who plays with direction. The midfield struggled to have any impact as a result. Ioane was excellent. Barnes to come back at 12 with McCabe/ACC/Horne at 13.

Yeah, and Giteau or Barnes at 10 solves the problem?Gits will crab across field and Barnes will kick all the ball away.

 

[biggsy]

Cooper played I thought, once the non Red boys get used to the way he plays i reckon they would be fine, need to piss Rocky off get sharpe and higgers in, and Deans needs use the bench better... good last 10min when Fainggas and higgers came on. Started going forward

 

[Ruggo]

Cooper was absolutely hopeless, looked like a deer in headlights at times. The gap between Carter and him is immense. We have zero chance of winning the World Cup unless with have a 10 who plays with direction. The midfield struggled to have any impact as a result. Ioane was excellent. Barnes to come back at 12 with McCabe/ACC/Horne at 13.

You wouldn't happen to be Tim Horan by any chance?

 

[Ruggo]

We got ambushed. I think we need to adapt in the sense we need to be able to alter our tactics mid game.

 

[RedsHappy]

For those that have today mounted the explanation that last night's loss was all about the brilliance of the ABs with this being the overarching reason for the Wallaby loss that, given such brilliance, should return us to the 'realistic' posture of humbly accepting our No 2 ranking (built via their typical admiration for our coach's abilities), can I suggest a quick look at Bob Dwyer's now posted blog assessment of the said Wallaby performance. Someone qualified to make an objective assessment of some value to us all.

 

[Rev Spooner]

It was pretty clear to me last night that the game was won by an offensive defense against a scared defense. We waited and gave them time to do whatever they wanted a d they pressured us into chicken without a head play. Simple really.

 

[terry j]

all this talk of deans etc.

I have often wondered why do people end up blaming the coach? (in the premier league, the manager)

They are not on the field playing. So let's reverse the situation..deans has the 'cred' because of the performance of the crusaders..maybe a twit such as myself could have done a good job as 'coach' with those players at my disposal??

So at the end of the day, how (why) do you apportion the percentage of each contribution?

I thought we were in it for the first, oh I dunno, five minutes?? Ha, I thought I might splurge on a type of beer I don't normally drink simply to get the wallabies supporter jersey...after last night decided to stick to my regular beer!

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

You wouldn't happen to be Tim Horan by any chance?

Hahaha, brilliant post.

 

[Groucho]

Well for a start, Deans has said on multiple occasions that the game plan is to 'play what's in front of us [The Wallabies]', so we can establish that there's not a whole lot of structure. We know that the Reds had a basic gameplan that had margin for error/room for movement/some degree of improvisation- whatever you want to call it. All I'm saying is that without any structure I think Quade is a lot more sporadic in terms of making smart decisions. The enhanced quality of opposition, especially the pressure forced by Nonu and the AB's back-row, contributes to that. I'm not desperately looking for a scapegoat, but I do think that some serious questions need to be asked about Deans if we come home from New Zealand in October with nothing to show for our 4-year 'rebuilding phase'.

And of course I don't think O'Connor has had no training. Every goal kicker has off nights- maybe it was that or maybe the pressure mounted by the media/score-line/RWC preparations caused that.

Cooper was explaining in the Herald yesterday that the Wallabies have more structure than the Reds.