Tri Nations - AUS v SAF 23rd July 2011.

[hammer]

(Slipper if fit)

according to his twitter, he is "hopefully should be playing again in 3-4 weeks"

 

[Ash]

Ouch, can't expect a player who has been gone that long to come straight back into a test team, either. If that is the case then the initially reported 4 - 6 weeks were pretty inaccurate.

 

[#1 Tah]

Taf says 4 weeks.

 

[tigerland12]

What I think the team will be, not what is should be.

1-Kepu
2-Moore
3-Alexander
4-Sharpe
5-Horwill
6-Elsom
7-Pocock
8-McCalman
9-Genia
10-Cooper
11-Ioane
12-Giteau
13-Ashley-Cooper
14-O'Connor (assuming he is fit)
15- Beale

Bench: Fainga'a, Slipper (if fit, Cowan or Daley if not), Simmons, Higginbotham, Robinson/Hodgson, Phipps, McCabe

I don't really agree with having the 5:2 split, considering that you aren't going to take your captain off, nor your best forward (Pocock). But at this point we don't really need an extra back on the bench because of the versatility of the starting backs.
Alexander should not be picked, but he will be.
Either one of Giteau, McCabe or Fainga'a could start at 12, but I feel Gits will get the gig.
Hodgson was pretty bad against Samoa, but he is a quality player, cannot write him off after one bad game, but Robinson did make a bit more of an impact when he came on. I can't see either of these two getting much game time anyway.

 

[Richo]

Giteau was not the problem yesterday. He did crab a bit and closed off space, but he had back foot ball all day and the Samoans were rushing up like crazy -- given the failure of the pack at the breakdown, how was he to have any confidence that running straight would be a good option? I've criticized Giteau a lot in the last few years, but to my mind yesterday simply proved something we already know: Giteau is not and has never been an option at 10 at test level. He can play there in Super Rugby, but is a much better 12 internationally. (Incidentally, the same is true for Barnes). Poor selection to put him there, although I understand why given the dearth of options.

By the same token, Hodgson shouldn't be the scapegoat for the forwards. Collectively it was an awful effort. Alexander and Elsom, in particular, were poor. Sadly neither will be dropped. Team I'd like to see:

1. Kepu
2. Moore
3. Baxter/Cowan
4. Horwill
5. Sharpe
6. Higginbum
7. Pocock
8. McCalman
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Digby
12. Giteau
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (last chance)
14. JOC (James O'Connor)
15. Beale

16. Baxter/Cowan
17. S. Fainga'a
18. Vickerman (although Simmons would be hard done by to miss out)
19. Robinson
20. Samo
21. Phipps
22. McCabe

Rocky won't get dropped and I prefer Higgers anyway -- if we're gonna have a seagull, we might as well have an effective one. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) deserves another run, although if he is poor again I would see him dropped. After yesterday, the bench has to be 5:2 so that there are options if forwards under perform again. I don't like the idea of Giteau as back-up halfback. Specialist positions require specialist back-ups.

 

[Richo]

T12, I think you're right on the starting 15. Sadly.

 

[jay-c]

it seems to me that the supporters of giteau have a new excuse for him every time he has failed the last few years
"he was behind a beaten pack"
"he had vanentine inside him"
"he had phipps inside him"
"he had burgess inside him"
"the whole brumbies team was poor"
"it was his first time playing with x player"
"he might have missed that one but hes kicked at 79% during s15"
a player with 90 caps should have had the nous to better control that game> why did he not call gerrard in to boot it 50 meters downfield?
one thing i noticed about cooper this year is if he didnt have front foot ball he pointed back to the forwards and told them to keep trucking it up till they were moving forward> git is a cancer on the backline @ 10 and with barnes fit he wouldnt even make my 30 for the wc.
experience experience experience is all i hear about giteau but where was this when we needed it>
git showed yesterday that he cant handle it, hes been showing it for 2 years but because of previous deeds this is being ignored.
we have waited years for him to play himself into form and its not happening.
the best thing in his arsenal was his ability to beat someone on the outside, hes now lost his acceleration as he gets older and as many have suggested he is limited to crabbing, early pass or kick. he is nothing but a name these days and its hurting the team by having him in there
makes me sad to say, but ive seen very little to suggest he shouldnt go the way of mortlock and waugh

 

[Swarley]

I think McCalman needs to be dropped, to the bench at least. He's not physical enough for the #8 role. Give it to Samo.

 

[Richo]

Jay-C, you've managed to conveniently miss the most legitimate "excuse": he's not a 10 and shouldn't play there.

 

[Slim 293]

it seems to me that the supporters of giteau have a new excuse for him every time he has failed the last few years
"he was behind a beaten pack"
"he had vanentine inside him"
"he had phipps inside him"
"he had burgess inside him"
"the whole brumbies team was poor"
"it was his first time playing with x player"
"he might have missed that one but hes kicked at 79% during s15"
a player with 90 caps should have had the nous to better control that game> why did he not call gerrard in to boot it 50 meters downfield?
one thing i noticed about cooper this year is if he didnt have front foot ball he pointed back to the forwards and told them to keep trucking it up till they were moving forward> git is a cancer on the backline @ 10 and with barnes fit he wouldnt even make my 30 for the wc.
experience experience experience is all i hear about giteau but where was this when we needed it>
git showed yesterday that he cant handle it, hes been showing it for 2 years but because of previous deeds this is being ignored.
we have waited years for him to play himself into form and its not happening.
the best thing in his arsenal was his ability to beat someone on the outside, hes now lost his acceleration as he gets older and as many have suggested he is limited to crabbing, early pass or kick. he is nothing but a name these days and its hurting the team by having him in there
makes me sad to say, but ive seen very little to suggest he shouldnt go the way of mortlock and waugh

Giteau was ok, not great... what did you expect Cooper to do?

The forwards simply weren't doing their job... so how would be pointing to them to keep trucking it up have helped?

 

[Slim 293]

I think McCalman needs to be dropped, to the bench at least. He's not physical enough for the #8 role. Give it to Samo.

McCalman seemed to be one of the few providing any go forward...

 

[jay-c]

Giteau was ok, not great... what did you expect Cooper to do?

The forwards simply weren't doing their job... so how would be pointing to them to keep trucking it up have helped?

well maybe pointing at them and telling them to keep trucking it up is oversimplifying what cooper did at the reds this year
but there was many times this year the reds forwards were going backwards and cooper performed a lot better
i dont mean this to be giteau vs cooper post cause that was put to bed last year
this is a" giteau out "post
i expected giteau who brings only experience to have used his experience when it was required. it wasnt

 

[Joe Blow]

actually i reckon deans goes with a 5:2 split on the reserves as gits can cover 9, meaning phipps will be cut and beau in for 20.

I reckon a 5:2 split is the way to go until Burgess is fit again.
Phipps is not up to the tri nations yet.

 

[jay-c]

anyway slim you further prove my point, this time it was the forwards, last time it was something else
giteau doesnt work

 

[Richo]

anyway slim you further prove my point, this time it was the forwards, last time it was something else
giteau doesnt work at flyhalf in Test match rugby

Fixed that for you.

 

[jay-c]

haha yeh
but he doesnt seem to like playing second fiddle to cooper either

 

[Richo]

With Barnes out he is our best option at 12. We'll see whether better form in Super Rugby translates to better performance at 12 next week.

 

[Slim 293]

anyway slim you further prove my point, this time it was the forwards, last time it was something else
giteau doesnt work

You didn't have a point...

You're trying to lay the blame onto one player for a bad team performance...

Cooper wouldn't have been the saviour yesterday... the Wallabies would still have lost that game...

I'm not saying that Giteau had a good game, I don't think any of the players did...

But he did do some good things, and it's silly to think that he could've done anything turn around that game when our forwards simply didn't show up...

No backline razzle dazzle will make up for the fact that the Samoans got to the breakdwon first, in numbers and outmuscled us...

 

[biggsy]

Alexandra surely cant get a mention. Beau and davies, they played fine under the circumstances. Davies wasn't even in the side until Friday afternoon. But i'm Bias to All Reds players. what ever happens they better beat this 2nd Bocks team. The this team chosen will be close to the WC team.

I agree with most names mentioned except Alexandra, he should be gone. And on the tread mill this off season...

 

[Slim 293]

I wouldn't say Davies played fine...

He did a lot of sideways running and was completely dominated by his opposite number...