Tri Nations - AUS v SAF 23rd July 2011.

[DPK]

RH I reckon Horwill is part of the three kings strategy of leadership at the Reds.

Horwill sets the platform with the forwards and leads from the front.

Genia provides some direction as well and links the forwards and backs.

Cooper delivers the killer blow with the backline.

Simple, effective, and not at all nontransferable to a Wallaby side.

 

[Sully]

Good Points DPK. You forgot A. Fainga'a planning, organising and running the defence.

 

[DPK]

I only covered the players I thought would be effective in the Green and Gold...

 

[#1 Tah]

Good Points DPK. You forgot A. Fainga'a planning, organising and running the defence.

Barnsey can do that just as well, if not better.

 

[RedsHappy]

RH I reckon Horwill is part of the three kings strategy of leadership at the Reds.

Horwill sets the platform with the forwards and leads from the front.

Genia provides some direction as well and links the forwards and backs.

Cooper delivers the killer blow with the backline.

Simple, effective, and not at all nontransferable to a Wallaby side.

Very well summarised IMO, I love 'the three kings' concept as I think that's precisely what it was and, commendably, no egos got out of kilter, mutual respect and teamwork dominated the Reds culture (as many have remarked on these boards). Not sure why not transferable to the Wallabies? Or, are you saying, not so transferable given a different captain in RE?

One of my many reasons for criticising the ardent ARU pre-anointment of forever-Rocky-as-captain some months back - when it was utterly unnecessary to do so - is that it pre-empted the possibility that a better, more match fit and match proven candidate might emerge through the S15 process and where Rocky was, to say the least, neither match fit then, nor had he proven himself an outstanding leader of the Wallabies after nearly 2 years of opportunity. In an RWC year especially, you need demonstrable excellence in every form of leadership, game management, and player quality.

IMO, Horwill has emerged as a superior candidate to lead the Wallabies to victory vs Rocky. I say this partly as a 'three kings' model applied to the Wallabies could well have been major component contributing to victory at a Test level, as it proved to be in S15. The deep links McCaw and Carter have, and that both have to many of their fellow Cru-based AB players, no doubt contributes to the AB's potency and their impressive, seamless team work.

 

[Scotty]

He said, 'not at all nontransferable'

 

[RedsHappy]

He said, 'not at all nontransferable'

Ooops, you're so right Scotty. Correction then DPK, my mis-read. As you can see, I do agree that 'the three kings' model would have been possible with/for the 2011 Wallabies.

 

[DPK]

RH, I have a feeling that these players will play this way regardless of whether Elsom is captain or not.

Don't forget, Horwill and Cooper were missing against Samoa, and Genia came off the bench. Can't wait for the Saffa game now.

 

[PaarlBok]

Muller is out, Hargreaves to lock and Kankowski to the bench. Happen when they try to play NH players.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

One reason for not having a Queenslander as captain, is that with the quite bad weather Queensland experienced earlier this year (in fact the weather was that bad it gave a fair few of us a tax!), the Gods may similarly inflict the Wallabies with equally dire weather wherever they next play....

Or something like that.

:thumb I like it - a better reason than most of the tripe trotted out at times!

 

[Brumbies Guy]

Barnsey can do that just as well, if not better.

Barnesy tends to use his head in defence in a different kind of way sadly.

 

[RedsHappy]

RH, I have a feeling that these players will play this way regardless of whether Elsom is captain or not. Don't forget, Horwill and Cooper were missing against Samoa, and Genia came off the bench. Can't wait for the Saffa game now.

That's a fascinating speculation DPK. It could be so. But I have to say that I think one of RE's 'problems' is that, despite his quietness, he's got a very substantial ego (now over-stoked by the ARU's 'he's the one' ongoing embrace), and I would expect Horwill will be very mindful of this. Agree with you - what unfolds on Saturday night in terms of RE's leadership, Horwill's play, and then 'the two kings' sitting behind all this, well, what permutations await us?!

 

[Richo]

All very interesting, but I kinda got weirded out back when RedsHappy started talking about Horwill "closely coupling with Genia and Cooper".

 

[AngrySeahorse]

All very interesting, but I kinda got weirded out back when RedsHappy started talking about Horwill "closely coupling with Genia and Cooper".

Just some "just friends" spooning.

 

[Athilnaur]

Good Points DPK. You forgot A. Fainga'a planning, organising and running the defence.

If that is true Sully I might reappraise my view of him, but I have to confess my suspicion is that Beau robinson has been making him look good. (/dons red flame retardant).

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

RH, I have a feeling that these players will play this way regardless of whether Elsom is captain or not.

Don't forget, Horwill and Cooper were missing against Samoa, and Genia came off the bench. Can't wait for the Saffa game now.

I have a suspicion you might be right, DPK. Rugby teams need leaders all over the park and the QLD boys coming in have proven their worth in that regard.

 

[Ruggo]

I can't wait to see Horwill and Pocock run out in the same pack. Together they are going to cause some serious headaches for our opposition. Absolutely amaizing athletes the pair of them.

 

[Blue]

Johann Muller failed a fitness test and will be replaced by Alistair Hargreaves. Improves the lineout but Big Al is a bit of a fairy.

They are missing a trick with Deysel on the bench in this weather. He should be starting with Rossouw moving to 5. But that would be logical. PdV does not do logic.

South Africa (revised) – 15 Gio Aplon, 14 Bjorn Basson, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Wynand Olivier, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Ashley Johnson, 7 Danie Rossouw, 6 Deon Stegmann, 5 Alistair Hargreaves, 4 Flip van der Merwe, 3 Werner Kruger, 2 John Smit (c), 1 Dean Greyling.
Subs: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Ryan Kankowski, 19 Jean Deysel, 20 Charl McLeod, 21 Adi Jacobs, 22 Pat Lambie.

 

[Mank]

Johann Muller failed a fitness test and will be replaced by Alistair Hargreaves. Improves the lineout but Big Al is a bit of a fairy.

They are missing a trick with Deysel on the bench in this weather. He should be starting with Rossouw moving to 5. But that would be logical. PdV does not do logic.

Agreed with the last part. I don't rate Deysel but the conditions do merit that change. I also partly agree with you about Hargreaves, but someone pointed out that the Sharks pack managed just fine with him for the S15.

 

[Blue]

Agreed with the last part. I don't rate Deysel but the conditions do merit that change. I also partly agree with you about Hargreaves, but someone pointed out that the Sharks pack managed just fine in spite of him for the S15.

Fixed. He just seems totally ineffective around the paddock.

What's with Deysel? A couple of years ago I went fark, look at this unit. Big, fast, big hits but he just doesn't seem to make an impact on the game?