TPN

[Braveheart81]

The Tahs can and should base their game around having about the best scrum in the competition.

TPN is perfect for that because he is the best scrummaging hooker in the country.

 

[Torn Hammy]

TPN breaks the defensive line while most forwards bend it. He can also stop an attacking play dead with his defense. These are rare qualities in the one player. I think most players tend to become a bit skittish when there is a mad fearless opponent coming at them full tilt.

The problem is that for TPN a healthier sense of self preservation makes him a less effective player. I think this is what has happened this season.

 

[Craig Riddington]

The Tahs can and should base their game around having about the best scrum in the competition.

TPN is perfect for that because he is the best scrummaging hooker in the country.

The Tahs do have one of the best scrums in the competition...it hasn't been enough though has it? Moore isn't shabby in the scrum either. Difficult to compare the two as scrummagers without all things being equal (against the same oppo., having the same props either side etc.)

 

[Bernie_Larkham]

TPN is vastly over rated. Lacks work rate of any sort, is a liability for his own team with his questionable tackling technique and simply isnt as good as Moore. Impact? Id argue Moore is just as good a ball runner, does it more often and doesnt spend half the match on the ground knocked out or off the field concussed. TPN fans get hard ons with a booming tackle once a match. Big deal, gets the commentators excited but doesnt impact the teams performance like Moore does week in week out.

TPN had potential but we wont ever see him be anything more than a bit player IMO.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that TPN is better than Moore.

Stephen Moore has been one of the best Wallabies for the last couple of years (although he was a bit down on form at the RWC) and is one of our few really world class players.

I think the only arguments (at least that I've been trying to make) is that I think this season TPN has reasserted himself as the second best hooker in the country and will be clearly ahead of Hanson, Charles, and Fainga'a when it comes to selecting the Wallabies 22 this season.

 

[Craig Riddington]

I don't think TPN is overrated at all. It's just horses for courses. I wouldn't pick TPN over Fainga'a and play an open style of game where you need someone with a high work rate and who is mobile enough to get across the width of the park. The trouble for TPN is that this Wallaby team has so much talent in the back line, they are always going to use the width of the pitch. That and the fact that his line out throw still needs improving.

 

[Jiggles]

There is some great discussion here.

The Wallabies have played their best rugby over the last number of years when the forward pack generate quick ruck ball through a high work rate. Given that Dean's treats Moore as a 60 minute test player (lets take this as a given for now) we need a second hooker who can continue the high number of touches, carries, tackles and ruck involvements that Moore contributes.

My Concern is that TPN does not contribute this, and we loose the momentum when he is on the field. The fact that he has rarely made an impact at test rugby, leads me to believe that his style is not conducive to the wallabies style of play.

I subscribe to horses for corses theory, and the question is - is TPN the Horse? I don't think he is right now.

 

[waratahjesus]

I think it's important to note especially with "against the all blacks" being used as reason against,that we don't lose to teams like them by not getting to rucks, we are losing it in the collisions, Sia, Charles etc will get there more often yes, but we need TPN, Palu, Higgers (2012 version) all firing at the moment. We need boppers not worker bees.

 

[TOCC]

I think there are some fair points raised here, at the end of the day i would much prefer TPN as the bench hooker for the Wallabies..

He is solid in the scrums and line outs, and those are the main things a hooker is there for and crucial at test level. The work rate of other players like Charles and Hanson don't offset the fact that TPN is that much better at the set piece.

 

[Richo]

Work rate is a valuable statistical tool but not the be all and end all. Does anyone want to see Richard Brown or Dean Mumm back in a Wallabies jersey?

Fortunately, Moore is an 80 minute player which means that if it's not a "TPN game" then he can play fewer minutes.

 

[jay-c]

tpn is a far superior scrumager to fainga and charles and hanson
neither of those stand out for their accuracy in the line outs
these facts alone keep tpn in the wallaby team for me

 

[kiap]

tpn is a far superior scrumager to fainga and charles and hanson
neither of those stand out for their accuracy in the line outs
these facts alone keep tpn in the wallaby team for me

TPN scrums better than Fainga'a. Dunno about Charles and Hanson, though.

Moore is a better scrummager than TPN in recent times.

 

[Jiggles]

For all this talk of TPN and his dominate scrumaging, it hasn't really improved the performances of the Tahs this year.

If you had props of Robinson, Kepu, Palmer & Slippers ability I doubt you would see some one like Hanson under much trouble at scrum time compared to the usual pressure placed on the Wallabies pack.

 

[Groucho]

Some of these are the same arguments as Eddie Jones put forward in 2001, from which we're only now recovering as a scrummaging nation.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm struggling to think of examples of teams that have had a dominant scrum that haven't also had a very good forward pack in general play.

If your scrum is superior, you generally do pretty well in the physical forward battle.

 

[Groucho]

I'm struggling to think of examples of teams that have had a dominant scrum that haven't also had a very good forward pack in general play.

If your scrum is superior, you generally do pretty well in the physical forward battle.

Indeed. It's obviously been true that the Waratahs can't convert their obvious tight five superiority into wins, but it'd be a disaster for the Wallabies to return to the philosophy that scrummaging superiority doesn't equate to wins because it doesn't work out that way for the Tahs. The Tahs have the ability to invalidate any playing philosophy - and I say that with regret not hostility.

 

[ChargerWA]

I don't know what measure people use when they say TPN is a substantially better scrumager than Charles.

The Force scrum has gone pretty well, and considering Charles is packing with Maafau (and Cowan, but I reckon he is under rated), the argument could be made Charles contributes more in a scrum. Charles is a better throw to the line out too.

I still think TPN is a better player then Charles and should sit 2nd, but if his current form carrys into the tests I think Charles should get his shot in the Wallabies.

 

[Groucho]

I don't know what measure people use when they say TPN is a substantially better scrumager than Charles.

The Force scrum has gone pretty well, and considering Charles is packing with Maafau (and Cowan, but I reckon he is under rated), the argument could be made Charles contributes more in a scrum. Charles is a better throw to the line out too.

I still think TPN is a better player then Charles and should sit 2nd, but if his current form carrys into the tests I think Charles should get his shot in the Wallabies.

I think it's the best test we have, ChargerWA, performance: the Tahs have been dominant against most Soup Rugby scrums, while other Australian scrums (including my own team, the Rebels) have simply been competitive. When he's off the field they're certainly not as good. For my money, any front row that can get on top of the Franks bros has earned its salt.

 

[Jnor]

I think it's the best test we have, ChargerWA, performance: the Tahs have been dominant against most Soup Rugby scrums, while other Australian scrums (including my own team, the Rebels) have simply been competitive. When he's off the field they're certainly not as good. For my money, any front row that can get on top of the Franks bros has earned its salt.

Welcome back Groucho!

 

[Groucho]

Welcome back Groucho!

Thank you Jnor. The rugby is about to start!