TPN

[Sully]

And then there were those times that Sai'a Fainga'a packed down scrums.

(Not that S. Finger is being discussed here, just to point out that not picking strong scrummaging hookers has a recent poor record too).

Fainga'a didn't pack down with Robinson and Kepu!

 

[Jiggles]

I think people underestimate the effect of a hooker at scrum time, I played hooker for 8 years, I was terrible and it affected the scrum alot. You ain't hanging there And if you are your doing it wrong.

Surely you're not suggesting that Hanson, Charles or even Fainga'a are at your level of scrummaging WJ

 

[Sully]

I think people underestimate the effect of a hooker at scrum time, I played hooker for 8 years, I was terrible and it affected the scrum alot. You ain't hanging there And if you are your doing it wrong.

I played prop for 15 years I know exactly what lazy arsed hookers do or don't do in scrums! They make little difference to whether you go forward or back. Props and second rowers do.

 

[Jiggles]

I'd also like to point out Sully that the flankers roll of driving in on the angle to wedge in the prop is underrated too. When a flanker does this well it can make a lot of difference.

 

[Sully]

I'd also like to point out Sully that the flankers roll of driving in on the angle to wedge in the prop is underrated too. When a flanker does this well it can make a lot of difference.

And underused in Oz rugby looking at the Meerkatting I see.

 

[Jiggles]

If I have one criticism of Pocock, its that he does this way to much. Particularly when we are on the back-foot come scrum time.

 

[Craig Riddington]

I would have thought that if you are looking at your hooker to sort out your scrummaging woes then you really do have big problems. The improvements in the Wallaby scrum have mostly come through having props with good strength and technique. I'm with Sully, the second row has a bigger impact on scrum dominance than the Hooker. The difference the absence of Brad Thorn has made to the 'saders scrum is a point in case. The difference that TPN would add to a scrum over Fainga'a is marginal. It was pretty interesting to see how the Reds front row stacked-up last night against the Brumbies. I think they faired pretty well in what was supposed to be the weaker front row of the two. Fainga'a wasn't a weakness in this regard. And since no one cares about scrum feeds being straight anymore (when was the last time someone saw a straight scrum feed??), the skill of 'hooking' is a disappearing art. Of the set pieces, the line-out is the hookers bread and butter. A hooker can win or loose a match on his ability to throw straight and hit his jumpers. Beyond this what else does the hooker bring to the party? Well I think there is an expectation that the hooker is like an extra loose forward. He makes tackles, gets turnovers, picks and drives, makes line breaks etc. There is no doubt that TPN has a lot of attributes is this department. But so does Fainga'a, Hanson and Charles. They are just different in what they can contribute to a team. Which comes back to my original assertion that it is horses for courses. It seems to me to be a bit limited in saying that TPN should be the Wallaby number one or two without some qualification of how you would make best advantage of his attributes within the systems used by the Wallabies and what the rest of the pack looks like. If the Wallabies look to pick and drive then Hanson and Fainga'a would both do well. It you wanted someone to set up pilfers for Pocock then Fainga'a would be his best friend. So, how do you guys think TPN and the pack should play for the Wallabies?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Until today i have given TPN the benefit of my doubt: i was prepared to assume that his high level of commitment and his attitude led him to put his head in some places it was not meant to go when he was defending.
But today, against the Cheetahs, he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has got no frigging idea how to tackle: in shallow cover on a break off the back of a lineout nearly 70 minutes in he had the 100% perfect angle on the ball carrier - in fact you would have to want to get your head in front in order to do it given the angle he was coming from. He managed it and was pole axed (as Rex would have said) as a result.
The guy's tackling technique is a joke, it is going to do him irreparable harm and it leaves his team without him for lengthy stretches of disneyland time. he should not play again until he has learnt to tackle.
I'm faaaaaaaarkin incensed that this has been allowed to get to this point.

 

[waratahjesus]

He had great impact and involvement last night, I'm not sure why your so worked up about something everyone already knows

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He had great impact and involvement last night, I'm not sure why your so worked up about something everyone already knows

you're right of course: how many weeks did he just spend on the sideline because of this crappy technique? The better you think he is the more incensed you should be about his technique because it is so bad it is costing him game time.
I also overlooked the fact that this is tahland: just because you know there's something wrong doesn't mean you try to fix it.
No, in tahland papering over the cracks works just fine.



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[waratahjesus]

you're right of course: how many weeks did he just spend on the sideline because of this crappy technique? The better you think he is the more incensed you should be about his technique because it is so bad it is costing him game time.
I also overlooked the fact that this is tahland: just because you know there's something wrong doesn't mean you try to fix it.
No, in tahland papering over the cracks works just fine.

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I think one of the main problems for TPN is the way he stays down, he lies on his belly all the time, I have seen him do it for his Head, Knee, Shoulder, Ribs and on Saturday night he actually stayed down for a hand injury in the same way.

He actually spent the last two weeks on the sideline due to getting hit high (legally as he was falling into it) in a tackle by pat McCabe, but you know that doesn't prove your point so we can ignore that. Yes his tackling is bad, but it isn't as fatal as it seems. I've watched training a few times, he tackles alot and very well during it. I think his bad placement may come more in games due to him always trying to hit big on a specific shoulder, when he sent trying to make big hits his technique s far more sound.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think one of the main problems for TPN is the way he stays down, he lies on his belly all the time, I have seen him do it for his Head, Knee, Shoulder, Ribs and on Saturday night he actually stayed down for a hand injury in the same way.

He actually spent the last two weeks on the sideline due to getting hit high (legally as he was falling into it) in a tackle by pat McCabe, but you know that doesn't prove your point so we can ignore that. Yes his tackling is bad, but it isn't as fatal as it seems. I've watched training a few times, he tackles alot and very well during it. I think his bad placement may come more in games due to him always trying to hit big on a specific shoulder, when he sent trying to make big hits his technique s far more sound.

I had forgotten what precisely led to his sidelining I must admit - but he spent time out the play on Sunday morning as he does whenever this happens - the better he is the more that time costs the Tahs.
Do you know the tackle I'm talking about from the weekend? i don't see how it can be defended on the ground of trying to use a specific shoulder for a big hit - a big hit was neither called for nor possible and there wasn't a choose of shoulders because of the angle - yet he still chose completely the wrong one.

 

[Braveheart81]

I know exactly the tackle you are talking about.

If you watch it again, he ran across at full pace and made a diving effort to stop a runner who had broken the first line. He clearly ended up in the wrong position, but I thought he made a really gutsy play to make the tackle. If he hadn't charged in so quickly and dived into the tackle, he probably wouldn't have got there.

His timing was slightly off and that's why his head was in the wrong position. I don't think he made a decision that he was going to tackle with the wrong shoulder though. I think he just sprinted across and dived at the legs because he knew that it was incredibly important that he stopped the runner.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

BH I guess we can argue the toss on this but unless we each have a beer in one hand and a remote control in the other we're not going to be able to point out the moments when "decisions" or instinctive reactions were made.
I am afraid I think that, desperate as the tackle may have been, he had ample time and perfect position to execute copybook head behind the legs tackle. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[waratahjesus]

I'm not saying he makes a mistake in the shoulder he chooses, he chooses the same one everytime cos he doesn't trust his other one, he try's to always hit on the left (I think) that's what causes the problem, in training he tackles with both while wearing pads, but I assume he doesn't trust his opposite shoulder.