The Role of Private Schools in Australian Rugby

[DPK]

On Lee Grant's advice, I've started this thread to bring this digression away from the best schoolboys XV's thread.

Personally, I'm waiting on Slim's reply to why it's a "shame".

 

[cyclopath]

In a sense, I can see why it is a shame. It would be better if there were more schools that played the game, and thus representation was wider. As it is, the sport is a "fringe" sport in some ways, so the entrenched nurseries are essential. That being the case, having a narrow group of schools from which to choose, with a large number seen as exclusive, expensive private institutions does little to change the opinion of the great unwashed that rugby is elitist. And yes, I am being a little ironic, but you get the gist.

 

[dobduff11]

To be honest, Australia has a pretty small playing population and the mungo's have large playerbase to choose from because that is what the state schools play.

If Rugby is exclusive to the private schools, which have the best facilities, best coaches and hugeamounts of teams then it's not really a bad thing.

In England nearly all of the players who play went to either private school or got scholarships to the rugby communtiy colleges, Ivybridge, hartpury, Prince Henry's Grammar school etc.. Very rarely did they go to a state school past 16

If the private schools are the ones investing in rugby then what is the problem

 

[RugbyFuture]

state schools don't play it exclusively, it depends on the area, its really because the catholic schools took it up originally, now its a sense of it being the most popular rugby code, so people sway to it more.

Cumberland high school and carlingford HS I know particularly play rugby over mungoball.

Dobduff, i think its because we compare to NZ and South Africa, and particularly since a Light Variant of rugby is so popular, that we see a problem.

 

[dobduff11]

Do NZ and RSA play rugby in every school pretty much be it Private or State

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It's pretty much only the private schools that play it over here, but the junior levels of the club game are fairly strong. That's where I played my footy, as I was a state school all the way through. The club I played for, University, also gained a lot of players coming through UWA as undergrad students, particularly guys who were boarding at the residential colleges.

 

[dobduff11]

Found this article on the web http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/knocking-on-heavens-door-20100128-n1jh.html

Talks about the GPS and its historic ties with union.

 

[Rothschild]

To be honest, Australia has a pretty small playing population and the mungo's have large playerbase to choose from because that is what the state schools play.
If Rugby is exclusive to the private schools, which have the best facilities, best coaches and hugeamounts of teams then it's not really a bad thing.
In England nearly all of the players who play went to either private school or got scholarships to the rugby communtiy colleges, Ivybridge, hartpury, Prince Henry's Grammar school etc.. Very rarely did they go to a state school past 16
If the private schools are the ones investing in rugby then what is the problem

Good post however, private schools in the UK are actually called 'public schools'. hence the term GPS - Greater Public Schools not private schools.

Sorry for that.

 

[Langthorne]

Well I guess rugby could be a difficult game for some to grasp.....maybe that is why it thrives more at private schools :fishing

 

[dobduff11]

Rotschild - haha I know that some are called public schools, i.e the ones that have a long history and some decent heritage, Eton, Harrow, Tonbridge

Alot of schools that are fee paying are called independent or private schools rather than public. My school is a fee paying school but it is definitely not a public school.

I thought I would call them private schools so as not to confuse anyone who didn't know.

 

[Langthorne]

On a serious note, I believe that the private schools are a net benefit to the development of rugby in Australia (producing players Vs reinforcing elitist stereotypes).

If we want state school and club development to increase it will require investment and imagination from the ARU, and a World Cup win, free to air rugby matches, and an ARC type comp wouldn't hurt either.

 

[dobduff11]

A world cup win would help I'm sure

Found this on wikipedia,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GPS_sporting_alumni
List of sydney GPS players that made it in different sports

Pretty much shows how dominant rugby is compared to the other sports. If the private schools didn't continue promoting rugby as the best sport then I doubt the wallabies would be as successful as they are

 

[wamberal]

Quite a few state high schools in Sydney still play rugby in preference to league. However, nowadays the best players would presumably be offered inducements to switch to the GPS system in their senior years. However, what would happen to a good player who happened to be at a top selective school, like James Ruse? He would have to make a difficult choice, whether to continue in the academically tough environment, or switch to a GPS school where his sporting proclivities would be encouraged.

The Sports High Schools are surely important, in any discussion about rugby in schools.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I would posit that without the private schools in OZ, rugby would be dead here. They are really the only educational institutions promoting the game in more or less every state. Even in rugby dead zones like SA, the private schools still play the game. This is especially important in the states like WA, SA and TAS where Aussie Rules dominates.

I'd say the same about rowing too, BTW.

 

[Bruce Ross]

The Sports High Schools are surely important, in any discussion about rugby in schools.

Unfortunately they tend to be a bit of a graveyard for kids' educational potential, an issue that urgently needs addressing.

 

[Burke's Boot]

What i find interesting is that the power base of rugby is still in private schools but is shifting away from the GPS/CAS ones to schools like St Augustine's, Brookvale, who have beaten Joeys i think twice recently.

 

[Jnor]

I think we're all in agreement on the fact that private schools have played a significant role in the place rugby has in Australia today. The question that needs asking, however, is whether rugby's strength in the private system has taken away what impetus there otherwise would have been to expand the game to a wider base and hence stunted its overall expansion here.

The effects of this are apparent at all levels from schoolboys to international as the administrators have always known they have a core group of support that has a relatively large commercial clout for its size, so there has been less of a pressing need to aggressively expand and gain as much 'market' share as possible against the other codes.

 

[RugbyFuture]

there certainly needs to be a move away from the reliance on schools. But only if the opportunity presents itself, no point taking the war to the schools early.

 

[Lee Grant]

What i find interesting is that the power base of rugby is still in private schools but is shifting away from the GPS/CAS ones to schools like St Augustine's, Brookvale, who have beaten Joeys i think twice recently.

It is not so much a shift but an addition. St. Augies is becoming a rugby powerhouse, albeit in a small ISA pond. The most important factor has been the role played by John Papahatzis, a rugby union missionary, affectionately known as Pappa. He is also looked upon unaffectionately for his over the top practices, notably when he got the job as NSW Schools selector and coach this year.

But let's not go there as the thread will be hijacked. IMO we need more missionaries that have his zeal and then accept a bit of stuff that is over the top. We are not going to progress using company men.

 

[RugbyFuture]

I believe the peeps at St Gregs are continually worried about the Marist Brothers from Joeys taking over the school and turning it into a rugby powerhouse.