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The ranting at Deans/ARU/O'Neill/Players thread

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louie

Desmond Connor (43)
Robbie Deans: "I was proud of the way the boys hung in there, but the All Blacks are a powerhouse. They are the benchmark."

What a pathetic thing to say. You've had six years in the job Deans this is your fault. The "he doesn't have enough good players" is just crap. He picks them, trains them and tells them what to do. Organize them to do the simple things right and we wouldn't be beaten 22-0. Get them fit and get them to hit rucks. Coaching has done this not players.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
First time in his career that I've said Robbie should be sacked.. But I honestly don't believe that the Wallabies are going forward under him, it's almost as though he is too scared to make the tough calls that he was so good at when he first came into the team..
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
His position now is surely untenable. We are going backwards and rapidly. The warning signs were there in June, but the last two weeks have been among the worst performances I've seen from a Wallaby team in several years. He's run out of ideas and I think has lost the players. Time to go.
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
His position now is surely untenable. We are going backwards and rapidly. The warning signs were there in June, but the last two weeks have been among the worst performances I've seen from a Wallaby team in several years. He's run out of ideas and I think has lost the players. Time to go.

I think you hit it on the head TBH. He has lost the players. They just aren't playing for him.

Untenable.
 

gho

Frank Row (1)
First time in his career that I've said Robbie should be sacked.. But I honestly don't believe that the Wallabies are going forward under him, it's almost as though he is too scared to make the tough calls that he was so good at when he first came into the team..
First time for me too, but he has to go. Did we even get to within 10m of the Wallabies tryline in that game?
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
Australia has managed to win the RWC twice. This is an effort equal to NZ and SA. Let's have a look at the winning sides:

1991

1. Tony Daly
2. Phil Kearns
3. Ewen Mckenzie
4. Rod McCall
5. John Eales
6. Simon Poidevin
7. Willie O
8. Troy Coker
9. Nick Farr-Jones
10. Michael Lynagh
11. David Campese
12. Tim Horan
13. Jason Little
14. Bob Edgerton
15. Marty Roebuck (a bit of man love here, but Marty Roebuck was one of the best fullbacks I have ever seen)

The coach was non other than GAGR's own Bob Dwyer. Dwyer had a good tactical eye for the game, and exuded passion.

Lets look at the 1999 team:

1. Richard Harry
2. Michael Foley
3. Andrew Blades
4. David Giffin
5. John Eales
6. Matt Cockbain
7. David Wilson
8. Toutai Kefu
9 George Gregan
10. Stephen Larkham
11. Joe Roff
12. Tim Horan
13. Daniel Herbert
14. Ben Tune
15. Matt Burke

The coach of this team was Rod Macqueen. Here we have a coach that analyses other teams, finds their weakness and coaches his team to be ruthless in exploiting opposition weaknesses. Macqueen was methodical and exacting.

Currently, we have a team that should be capable of taking on heavyweights. However, something is clearly being lost in translation. Our coaching setup is not getting the best out of our top players, and I think that this is a major communication issue. Ambiguous expectations about gameplan, expectations of players and accountability lead to a muddled selection and playing process.

Our top line players have the talent, but that talent is not being harnessed correctly. Yes, poor performances rest on the heads of the players, but poorly performing teams are happening too often at international level to account for "an off night" or "out of form".

Ask yourselves, who currently coaches in Australia that has passion and a methodical approach to the game?
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
First time in his career that I've said Robbie should be sacked.. But I honestly don't believe that the Wallabies are going forward under him, it's almost as though he is too scared to make the tough calls that he was so good at when he first came into the team..


What tough calls were those? Giteau after three years? Baxter after three? Both were arguable when he replaced them with players known for "X factor" but not dominance in their positions. Indeed Giteau went from the side altogether when he should have been punted to the only placed he played well. But then he did sort of tell Deans he had no idea and Deans couldn't really let that secret get out now could he. The Gravy boat was quite drained.

The "signs" were there for anybody to see in 2009 when I first posted about "Time to Sack Deans?". The first loss to Elngland when they played such rudderless rugby and looked like they had no real game plan to fall back on when the pressure hit. Why does that sound familiar. I would be absolutely stunned if any Tier 1 side took him as a head coach. His tenure should be held up to all RUs as an example of poor coaching and worse IMO poor governance from the ARU.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Australia has managed to win the RWC twice. This is an effort equal to NZ and SA. Let's have a look at the winning sides:

1991

1. Tony Daly
2. Phil Kearns
3. Ewen Mckenzie
4. Rod McCall
5. John Eales
6. Simon Poidevin
7. Willie O
8. Troy Coker
9. Nick Farr-Jones
10. Michael Lynagh
11. David Campese
12. Tim Horan
13. Jason Little
14. Bob Edgerton
15. Marty Roebuck (a bit of man love here, but Marty Roebuck was one of the best fullbacks I have ever seen)

The coach was non other than GAGR's own Bob Dwyer. Dwyer had a good tactical eye for the game, and exuded passion.

Lets look at the 1999 team:

1. Richard Harry
2. Michael Foley
3. Andrew Blades
4. David Giffin
5. John Eales
6. Matt Cockbain
7. David Wilson
8. Toutai Kefu
9 George Gregan
10. Stephen Larkham
11. Joe Roff
12. Tim Horan
13. Daniel Herbert
14. Ben Tune
15. Matt Burke

The coach of this team was Rod Macqueen. Here we have a coach that analyses other teams, finds their weakness and coaches his team to be ruthless in exploiting opposition weaknesses. Macqueen was methodical and exacting.

Currently, we have a team that should be capable of taking on heavyweights. However, something is clearly being lost in translation. Our coaching setup is not getting the best out of our top players, and I think that this is a major communication issue. Ambiguous expectations about gameplan, expectations of players and accountability lead to a muddled selection and playing process.

Our top line players have the talent, but that talent is not being harnessed correctly. Yes, poor performances rest on the heads of the players, but poorly performing teams are happening too often at international level to account for "an off night" or "out of form".

Ask yourselves, who currently coaches in Australia that has passion and a methodical approach to the game?


The thing that is not seen in looking at team sheets is that both sides had a plan. They were starkly different those plans between the sides, but the players, some of who were there for both wins, executed those plans perfectly on most occasions and when the real pressure came on they were able to get over it because their base structures were in place. Think the '91 game against the Irish and the the final, and the '99 game against the Bok.

Now tell me what the base pattern of the current Wallabies is?

I can tell you that the '91 Wallabies played an exceptional game around set pieces, be it from the actual set piece or by executing backline moves from general play breakdowns. The sort of thing that Deans says should never score tries in test Rugby. Any wonder that the Wallabies have scored 5 tries in 7 matches and in the last two never really looked like scoring except for the Barnes effort tonight. Is one real chance in 80 minutes really that good no matter the opposition. Especially when you consider the sheer weight of possession the Wallabies enjoyed in both games. It is hard to say the pigs haven't done the job when they achieve 60% possession as they did in the first match.

The '99 Wallabies had the most structured game plan (apart from Eddie's play by numbers approach) seen yet. The constant recycle and grind away game with exceptional counter attack when available. To execute that plan the players were drilled mercilessly to be in position and back up. They rarely got turned over. It was far from nice to watch but winner are grinners and Macqueen ground out many victories.

So what is this Wallabies side's plan? Up until the RWC it was hold on and let the "X factor" players break the line and get us some points. At the RWC it was kick the shit out of it and defend, with some one out hit ups to confuse the opposition. When under Deans have the Wallabies put together a comprehensive game plan as we did under those worthies named? I say again Deans is a failure, not because of results, they are a by product. He is a failure simply because he has no comprehensive plan and has failed to equip our players with a system and tactics that they can rely on in test match Rugby. I say again that it doesn't matter who is selected to play when there is no plan. This is the reason why Graham Henry was given the second chance, not because he and his team were the best, so many Kiwis wanted their heads for the "resting" program, but simply because the only opponent for the job had NO plan and the NZRU were smart enough to understand that a plan and method is essential.
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
The thing that is not seen in looking at team sheets is that both sides had a plan. They were starkly different those plans between the sides, but the players, some of who were there for both wins, executed those plans perfectly on most occasions and when the real pressure came on they were able to get over it because their base structures were in place. Think the '91 game against the Irish and the the final, and the '99 game against the Bok.

Now tell me what the base pattern of the current Wallabies is?

I can tell you that the '91 Wallabies played an exceptional game around set pieces, be it from the actual set piece or by executing backline moves from general play breakdowns. The sort of thing that Deans says should never score tries in test Rugby. Any wonder that the Wallabies have scored 5 tries in 7 matches and in the last two never really looked like scoring except for the Barnes effort tonight. Is one real chance in 80 minutes really that good no matter the opposition. Especially when you consider the sheer weight of possession the Wallabies enjoyed in both games. It is hard to say the pigs haven't done the job when they achieve 60% possession as they did in the first match.

The '99 Wallabies had the most structured game plan (apart from Eddie's play by numbers approach) seen yet. The constant recycle and grind away game with exceptional counter attack when available. To execute that plan the players were drilled mercilessly to be in position and back up. They rarely got turned over. It was far from nice to watch but winner are grinners and Macqueen ground out many victories.

So what is this Wallabies side's plan? Up until the RWC it was hold on and let the "X factor" players break the line and get us some points. At the RWC it was kick the shit out of it and defend, with some one out hit ups to confuse the opposition. When under Deans have the Wallabies put together a comprehensive game plan as we did under those worthies named? I say again Deans is a failure, not because of results, they are a by product. He is a failure simply because he has no comprehensive plan and has failed to equip our players with a system and tactics that they can rely on in test match Rugby. I say again that it doesn't matter who is selected to play when there is no plan. This is the reason why Graham Henry was given the second chance, not because he and his team were the best, so many Kiwis wanted their heads for the "resting" program, but simply because the only opponent for the job had NO plan and the NZRU were smart enough to understand that a plan and method is essential.

That was was I was alluding to there Gnostic. You just applied the sledgehammer! :)
 
D

daz

Guest
Hi guys, just passing through on my way to somewhere else.

So, what are we talking about?

:D
 

The Snout

Ward Prentice (10)
I think Dean's is a fine coach but his methods aren't working with the Wallabies and it's time for a replacement. I believe if Dean's went back to Super Rugby a team in need would improve under him. But for some reason Dean's and Green and Gold just don't gel.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I think Dean's is a fine coach but his methods aren't working with the Wallabies and it's time for a replacement. I believe if Dean's went back to Super Rugby a team in need would improve under him. But for some reason Dean's and Green and Gold just don't gel.


I would put money on any Rugby side apart from the Crusaders and their complete system being just as much a failure. I have seen nothing from Deans when he is away from that system to indicate that he is a good coach.
 

Sluggy

Ward Prentice (10)
Should we wait to see how the Wallabies results against the Boks and Pumas compare to the AB's before making up our minds?

Having asked that, Deans does not seem to be able to grasp and use the Australian rugby pysche. We don't go well trying to emulate Canterbury because we aren't Canterbury. The pity of it is that when our forwards do go well and get some front foot ball (not much tonight), the backs are not using it creatively like past Wallaby backlines. Dean's continued centres selection of no-pass, head down tackling machines in the McCabe/AFaingaa/Horne mould points to a game structure foreign to Australian players instincts.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
JON will sack him, but there isn't a coach stupid enough to take over mid championship. It can only come after.

If they do it there will be no great expectation for the remainder of TRC. However, if they are going to make a change it is important that this is done ASAP so the new coach can have a few runs against decent opposition before the Lions series.
The EOYT will not give him enough time to really get it together.
 

Da Munch

Chris McKivat (8)
Nup. Seen enough.

Don't come Monday, Robbie.
Was hoping to wake up to headlines along the lines of Deans and O'Neil have fallen on their swords - still a day to go till Monday so still hoping. A draw in the other game ... so it'll be the anzacs (can't say aussies cause it's a nz heading the team) who are gonna be the first beaten by the pumas, surely that'll have to be enough for Deans and O'Neil to go without getting any payouts.

p.s another drought broken by deans last night, I think it was 1962 was the last time the wannas were held to zero by the darkness
 
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