The Pulverisation of Australian Rugby

[I like to watch]

Then they should address the "broken development pathway"
Not smooth over the cracks, and have a short term solution of bringing in more foreigners.

 

[Gnostic]

I agree with what you are saying ILTW but I do think at the same time some of the foreign imports have a lot to offer Super Rugby. Gareth Delve for instance, Daniel Braid etc. I think that they bring a great level of variety and some international flavour to the competition which has become increasingly domestic under the conference system.

I also think that some very experienced Test stars at the end of their careers could be a great asset to a side in passing on knowledge. Imagine if you will what Brian O'Driscol could offer in a mentoring role with a couple of seasons at the Rebels for instance.

I still think there is a place for the foreign imports, but we never ever want to get to the stage that the French league has got to. To me the French League is so much like the English Premier League Soccer, maight be some great players running around there but how has it supported the strength of the French national side?

 

[I like to watch]

I thought the issue was that the ARU has allowed an increase in the number of foreigners for next year.
Not that some foreigners have served a valuable role with some franchises.

 

[TOCC]

Then they should address the "broken development pathway"
Not smooth over the cracks, and have a short term solution of bringing in more foreigners.

Undoubtedly, but these issues aren't going to be rectified by the start of next season, commercial success of our super rugby clubs is imperative for the development of the game as well..

The issues need to be handled concurrently, the pathways need to be fixed to support long term viability but we also need to allow our super rugby teams of today to play competitive rugby to support their bottom line.

 

[I like to watch]

The issue is not being handled concurrently.The only change has been with the short term superficial approach.
The long term structural thing? I suppose the Sydney GPS comp now goes for 2 rounds,maybe that's the answer?

That last bit was my idea of a joke BTW.

 

[Gnostic]

I thought the issue was that the ARU has allowed an increase in the number of foreigners for next year.
Not that some foreigners have served a valuable role with some franchises.

It is but that doesn't mean we need a blanket ban or further restrictions and there needs to be a far better contracting system for Australian Players. I should also add that there is no incentive for players like Nick White to remain in Australia and do the hard slog with little prospect of getting a Wallabies spot, especially when it appear that a player can go to France and get a big pay day for a couple of seasons and return to Australia when a once in a career tour is in the offering to resume where they left off, without even giving the country's provinces any service in that year. This hasn't been an isolated example either. There is no integrity in the current system. I would not be surprised at all to see an exodus of out of favour players if Deans is re-appointed coach at the end of this BIL tour.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In the long term neither do I, but their success or lack thereof is a reflection of the shallow depth, right now Australia doesn't have the depth to provide 35 super rugby player to each team.

I think australia has the potential to fill those positions, but the development pathways are broken, the academy system is quite frankly a failure and the current squad sizes are barely big enough to meet the requirements of a full season.

Agree.
But we must take our medicine now otherwise we're just bandaiding the issue.
There does not seem to be any suggestion that this is a stop gap measure - quite the contrary.
It seems to follow, therefore, that this is the ARU's development strategy indefinitely into the future: i.e. not just for 2014 but forever.
I fear this is a slippery slope too: once the plan has run for 3 years the original 457 visa holders can become aussies and, presumably, dip out of the system and a new rotation of 7 can be added in. So that would be 14 less spots in year 4 for aussie born players.
Without an age limit they can start competing with the French and see who's about at the U20's each season rather than waste their time and money, and taking a risk on, developing 7 aussies.

 

[TOCC]

The issue is not being handled concurrently.The only change has been with the short term superficial approach.
The long term structural thing? I suppose the Sydney GPS comp now goes for 2 rounds,maybe that's the answer?

That last bit was my idea of a joke BTW.

The proposed third tier comp will go a long way to improving the development pathway, whether it comes to fruition or not is another story.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The proposed third tier comp will go a long way to improving the development pathway, whether it comes to fruition or not is another story.

We'll become expert at 25 minute halves - that should come in handy

 

[I like to watch]

The proposed third tier comp will go a long way to improving the development pathway, whether it comes to fruition or not is another story.

What is proposes as a third tier is a fucking disgrace.It is just spin.
5 Academy teams playing under 10 length games.
Look at the NPC, Or the Currie cup.That is what a 3rd tier comp looks like.
Either do it properly or do nothing.
Don't waste money on an empyu gesture, just so you can bullshit some of the punters.

 

[Bruce Ross]

What is proposes as a third tier is a fucking disgrace.It is just spin.
5 Academy teams playing under 10 length games.
Look at the NPC, Or the Currie cup.That is what a 3rd tier comp looks like.
Either do it properly or do nothing.
Don't waste money on an empyu gesture, just so you can bullshit some of the punters.

On reflection I think that the Pulveriser may be onto something in shortening games to 50 minutes. Had Rugby-Lite been played throughout the Deans era our record against the All Blacks would have almost looked respectable. It was the last 30 minutes that was so frequently our downfall.

Our new CEO is bringing the logic of the boardroom to Australian rugby. It's very costly to develop professional rugby players locally, just as in the non-sporting sphere it's very costly to use apprenticeships to train skilled tradesmen. The cost effective answer is to use the 457 Visa route to buy in ready-mades.

Our national coaching team seemingly can't condition our players to last 80 minutes. No problem. Reduce the playing time by a third. We'll probably incur less injuries that way. Most importantly, detailed ARU analysis indicates that the true supporters of the game, those in corporate boxes, often find the actual rugby to be a distraction, so finishing games early gives them more opportunity to network with other suits. After all, not everyone has time to play midweek golf.
.

 

[Quick Hands]

Virtually explicit in the Pulver Pronouncement is the idea that Australian Rugby is incapable of producing sufficient players of international standard; evidenced by the stipulation that the additional import positions are to be restricted to those "who will eventually become eligible to play for the Wallabies."

Let us look at a simple alternative to the 457-Visa-isation of our sport.

The objective is to try to even up the playing field by favouring the disadvantaged franchises. Few of us would object to the underlying aim. The alternative strategy proposed would be for the ARU to allow the Western Force and Melbourne Rebels to lift their salary cap by say $500,000 on the proviso that the additional money was to be used to fully contract three additional players.

There would be a net gain of 16 locally developed players on full professional contracts if the second alternative were implemented (the 10 positions which had been Pulverised plus 6 new positions). 16 locally produced players who would get the chance to participate as professional sportsmen without needing to go to Europe or to disappear into the Bermuda Triangle of Japanese Rugby. 16 locally produced players who would have the opportunity to go on to play for the Wallabies.

If the ARU were actually serious about lifting our playing standards - a fanciful notion admittedly but conceptually possible - they might choose to subsidise the salary cap increases to some extent.
.

Maybe they've just deconstructed their participation figures and realised that the base of the pyramid is shrinking. Maybe deep within the bunker there are the 'real' books with the number of 'real' participants, as opposed to the ludicrous figures released recently, which double, triple and quadruple count boys who play club rugby, 15 as side gala days, 7 a side gala days and school competitions, which count golden oldies in the figures, which reckon boys who play 1 match in aforementioned gala days as participants in the same way as if they played the full season for a club or school.

(No offence intended for golden oldies, but I presume that then powers that be don't consider them to be future wallabies.)

At the moment professional rugby is going ok, what the Rebels and Force need is money and resources to help them to develop a grass roots system that will produce more professional players. There is a large Sth African and Zimbabzean expat community in Perth and also a large British expat community - fertile ground you'd think for rugby development. I'd have thought far more likely to be rugby people that aussie rules people. Reasonably large NZ and pacific islander expat community in Melbourne as well.

But doing nothing and fudging the figures is much easier.

 

[p.Tah]

Maybe they've just deconstructed their participation figures and realised that the base of the pyramid is shrinking. Maybe deep within the bunker there are the 'real' books with the number of 'real' participants.......

Perhaps Pulvers real vision is to bring in imports who will bred with the locals. Raising kids who love and play rugby and expand our rugby genes.

I'll call my femle friends and relatives. I'll buy the scented candles and Barry White music. Lets root for the Wallabies!

 

[Quick Hands]

Perhaps Pulvers real vision is to bring in imports who will bred with the locals. Raising kids who love and play rugby and expand our rugby genes.

I'll call my femle friends and relatives. I'll buy the scented candles and Barry White music. Lets root for the Wallabies!

One for dad, one for mum and one for the wallabies.

 

[Omar Comin']

Maybe this will open the possibility of a 6th super rugby team in Australia when the broadcasting rights come up again.

I think there's definitely scope to increase the number of professional teams here - starting with a side in Western Sydney. We don't have the playing depth in Australia to do that. However if we allow a greater number of foreigners in each team it would be possible to have 6 (or eventually more) competitive sides (without reducing the total number of Australian players).

But I think there should be spots available for young, already capped Argentinians and Pacific Islanders...and Asian players if they are good enough. Under the current rules, and even these new rules they have no chance as they're neither marquee players nor potential future Wallabies.

But there'd be advantages for Australian rugby by helping develop rugby players from these nations. One, they improve the quality of our super rugby teams (and allow us to add more teams) which gives the franchises a better chance of being successful and expanding their fan bases (thus increasing the popularity of rugby in this country). Secondly it would increase the commercial return from home test matches against these nations. They would become more competitive sides with players that more people recognise.

 

[Pfitzy]

If you want to keep building your base on the private school system, this is what you get.

In addition, the ARU are still paying for the ravages of professionalism's advent -the size of the contacts are simply too big, and are beggaring the organisation.

Further, the game simply isn't a competitive product in a congested market, and unless we start having big series wins I.e. Lions and Bledisloe, the place went need overseas players to cripple out - players will simply stop coming to rugby

 

[Gnostic]

Pfitzy - First the Reds and now the Tahs have shown what is needed to win fans in Australian Rugby. It is about winning on a base level, but more importantly it is about how the game is played.

I was a strident critic of the Tahs for the last 5 or 6 years for how they played the game. It was attrocious. This year regardless of the win:loss they have played well and there is a corresponding upturn in feeling for the side. The Tahs next year will need to make the finals playing that good brand of Rugby to continue the momentum exactly the way Mooney's exciting side carried on under Link to take the title.

I will state openly that if the Wallabies manage to scrape out a win against the Lions playing as they did at the RWC with the risk averse limited plan we saw there and again last year, it will win no new fans and many of the old will continue to find better things to do with their cash and time. 5 years ago I had a regular group at my place or at the pub to watch the tests and most of the Tahs Super games. Now days I watch alone most of the time as all these blokes have simply drifted off to other things after being life long Rugby followers if not fanatics such as me. The ARU can ill afford to continue this downward spiral.

 

[Pfitzy]

I agree largely - we need rugby to be attractive, but it also needs to address the basics in order to get the results. You've talked on other threads about Deans and his game plan., so I won't go into that here.

The fact is professionalism has changed the game they play in heaven, and until the law makers get ahead of the cynical players, we will continue to have a problem.

This can be easily addressed of course - the ELVs were a wonderful success here in the MARC and should have been taken up to make the game faster and provide more points at all levels of the game. More yellow cards are also helpful to stamp out professional fouls -make them five minutes or whatever if that helps.

The bigger issue is money. It's all KPIs and beep tests now. There is less room for flair the higher up the chain you go. Player and coach contracts, broadcast rights, sponsorships to unions... It all adds up. Any head coach will take a year of 1 point wins over the odd spectacular victory surrounded by mediocre performances.

Silverware is shiny, and we don't have much.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Gnostic and Pfitzy you guys are talking a lot of sense.
If we want to address the quality of play we need to start at the botom with the basics.
What I am about to say is going to seem trivial. I dont believe it is.
The number of age teams I see training backline (and forward) "moves" when the kids cannot catch reliably, pass both ways and tackle effectively is astounding.
What is the point of having a double cut with a switch and a twist of lime if the players cant catch and pass the ball?
What is the point of having a lineout move if no one in Australia can reliably throw the ball in straight?
When the whips are cracking at any level of the sport the fundamentals are what will make the difference.
The shortage of basic skills is in part driven by the content of the coaching manuals: they've been written by blokes who (a) have a PhD in witches hat placement and (b) have a full time job with the ARU and so need to justify their salary by dreaming up simulation drills.
The best simulation is to play modified full contact games designed to hone particular skills.

 

[I like to watch]

You worry too much IS.
The best of these youngsters will end up somehow in a GPS environment.
Excellent coaching and drills will eliminate these weaknesses.
The rest?
Surplus to requirements apparently.
Apparently not needed by the code for another decade or so, until they have their own cash to buy tickets/merchandise.
They have got it all sorted.