The Impending Beale vs Folau vs Cooper debate

[tranquility]

It has often been spoken about here that Beale should be looked at as a 13. I have never really subscribed to the thought, but I am now coming round.

Beale is a very good footballer, but even at his best he is not what Folau is. Folau in my opinion will be the best player on the planet by the time the next world cup rolls around.

Beale is also not a 10, nor a 12 - so unless he becomes our supersub - and gee he could revolutionise that role, than I think he needs to look at playing 13.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is clearly a better winger than a 13, so I think Cheika should look to play Adam there and trial Beale as a playmaker in midfield. Maybe it won't work, who knows but it is at-least worth a shot.

The bloke can run such incredible lines, it would be a very interesting experiment.

 

[No4918]

This is the first time I have heard Beale floated as a 13 and think it would be a mistake. His defence is nowhere near good enough even if it may work at Super Rugby level. Kuridrani still makes the odd mistake but his size and dominance puts players under pressure, if he can improve his reads he will be the defensive weapon Fainga'a is for the Reds at 13 with the ball running and offload ability.

With the wings available and Speight good to go it could come down to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Beale as the last bench spot.

 

[chasmac]

Beale for mine doesn't get a start, possibly bench.
A full season of S15 needs to be played yet. In the mean time, your shout Kurtley...

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I just can't see how KB (Kurtley Beale) can work at outside centre. It's defensively the hardest position and one that often requires a physical size/presence that Kurtley doesn't have. I've long put forward the proposition that a centre pairing needs to have a distributor/ball player with a great turn of pace and the ability to unlock defences and a hard running, hard tackling crasher. KB (Kurtley Beale) could be the former for sure, but how would that work with the rest of the backline structure the Tahs would play? Forget about him playing for the Wallabies right now, he'd be flat out getting a game for NSW! So who do the Tahs have starting already in their squad?

9, McKibbin
10, Foley
11, Betham
12, Horne
13, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14, Crawford
15, Izzy

Would KB (Kurtley Beale) displace any of those blokes in the starting team? Maybe Horne, but I suppose it would depend on the kind of game Cheika wants to play. That backline does look very balanced and pretty potent too. I would suggest that Kurtley will be warming the bench to begin with or he might displace Foley.

 

[USARugger]

Although what an in-form Beale does offer is immense X factor. He can often sniff out a try that others cannot. And he, like To'omua for Cooper at Wallabies level, gives the fly half more options.

To'omua provides the extra option because he is a legitimate threat to break the line by going straight over top of the opposing 10/12. Beale doesn't provide this type of running and we would see the inside backs jockey early to cover the swerve or pass outside.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

To'omua provides the extra option because he is a legitimate threat to break the line by going straight over top of the opposing 10/12. Beale doesn't provide this type of running and we would see the inside backs jockey early to cover the swerve or pass outside.

To'omua has also stepped up the level of defence in the 12 channel as well. That bloke fair dinkum sits opposition players on their arses with regularity. He loves it.

 

[tragic]

For mine its bench, or wing if he regains his 2010 form. His defence is too frail for the midfield.
Hate to open up the old "different positions in attack and defence" can of worms again, but I'd consider:
Folau at FB in defence for his strength under the high ball. Beale at FB in attack for his evasiveness with Izzy as a roving winger to feed off the mini break. How many attacking threats would that give...

 

[Alex]

Or let AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) defend in the 13 channel if Kurtley isn't up to it and bring him in from the wing on attack?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I wholeheartedly disagree with any notion to play KB (Kurtley Beale) in someone else's position, be it 10, 11, 12, 13, or 14. We have top notch performers in each and very good specialist backups. Don't tinker. The notion that we should again start to put particular players in positions for attack, and in other positions for defence is simply mindboggling. We have moved way beyond this. Why even contemplate a reversion? KB (Kurtley Beale) has to prove his worth next year before I would even consider him for any position in the current Wallabies' lineup.

 

[Braveheart81]

At the moment, KB (Kurtley Beale) will be competing with players like Foley and potentially Leali'ifano to cover 10 and 15 on the bench.

If KB (Kurtley Beale) comes back to form in 2014, it's likely that he'll be in the Wallabies starting XV at some point in the future due to inevitable injuries. He's a class player and whilst he's not going to push Cooper or Folau out of the starting XV anytime soon, he is quite likely to be in the picture if there are injuries.

He definitely fits the role of super sub well as at his best he is one of the most gifted attacking players we have. He is absolutely the sort of player who can make something out of nothing and win you a game in the closing stages.

 

[Brumbieman]

What's with the haste tor ush him back in?

This is exactly how young players are ruined, we place such high requirements on them that they just expect to waltz back in. By the sounds of things, Beale is still out getting ratarsed when he wants (this isn't just from that dickhead Weidler's article), so IMO he aint in the Tahs matchday squad.

It's only when a player realises just how vulnerable they are, that they truly put in. Cooper did when Dingo dropped him, threw him to the wolves, dropped him and then left him out altogether. That's the point where he realised that he's just another player who could play 10. He might be the best at it, but unless his head is right he wont play.

Beale should surely be realising this now, with Folau turning fullback into his position, Mogg making a great fist of it as well (despite the kneejerk reactions of posters on here). Hopefully, this flames his arse and he gets serious, and stops going out and getting wankered and making an arse of himself.

I would like to see serious dedication from him, eg Mowen giving up booze of his own choice because he was so desperate to play for the Wallabies. Spend 6 months in traction 3 times a week because he's so desperate to hold onto that jersey now that he's made it.

Until Beale demonstrates that, I wouldn't even put him on the Tahs bench if I were Cheika. I'd continually pick players who try harder and train harder, who've shown the mental side of things required, because until KB (Kurtley Beale) see's that THAT is the level required and expected, he wont shape up. For his own good he needs this, and by christ I hope he does, because at his best and on form he's electric, but I don't want to see a career wasted and ruined.

Fingers crossed!

 

[tragic]

I wholeheartedly disagree with any notion to play KB (Kurtley Beale) in someone else's position, be it 10, 11, 12, 13, or 14. We have top notch performers in each and very good specialist backups. Don't tinker. The notion that we should again start to put particular players in positions for attack, and in other positions for defence is simply mindboggling. We have moved way beyond this. Why even contemplate a reversion? KB (Kurtley Beale) has to prove his worth next year before I would even consider him for any position in the current Wallabies' lineup.

You will note the suggestion was predicated on the presumption he regains his 2010 form where he was close to WPOTY and would be difficult to leave out. It also contained the assessment that if he doesn't - bench him.
If he regathers that form then he wouldn't be playing in someone else's position. He would be playing in his own. (at least in attack where its fair to say most of his 2010 brilliance occurred) and shifting in defence to make way for Folaus superiority under the high ball.
Many teams shuffle their defensive and attacking lineup and prejudice based on previous experiance of the Cooper FB/10 switch doesn't necessarily mean it has no merit.

 

[TOCC]

Beale at 13??

What would we achieve by playing a player who doesn't run straight/hard or direct in a position which requires all those attributes.. Kuridrani is favoured because he runs great lines and is strong in contact, this complements a good passing 5/8 and straightens the attack thus giving the outside backs more room.

Don't get me wrong, Beale has his strong points and he has the potential to be a very good test player, but unless he changes his style dramatically the his future is not at 13.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I could not disagree more with the thought of playing Beale as fullback in attack, wing in defence in combo with Folau. Do not believe in this at international level.

Perhaps at provincial level where you have limitations and limited squads (see QLD Reds) this can work, but at international level, especially when you have options like Izzy, you should not need to jumble things around like that.

I've seen it in the Hooper v Pocock thread as well. Some thinking seems to be that we need to fit every single good player in some where... Well there's only 15 spots. Good players will miss out, that's the hallmark of good teams when that is possible.

 

[Jets]

Beale to take Lilo's spot on the bench as back up 10/15. Kurtley has some issues but playing rugby isn't one of them. His return for the Rebels this year had everyone calling for him to be back in the Wallabies. He can cut a team apart and that would be great to have on the bench.

In saying all of that Link has drawn a line in the sand in regards to expectations of Wallaby players. Beale is going to have to fit into these if he wants to play again. I am hopeful he sorts things out and I think the Tah's structure might be a good place to be.

If Beale is in contention for the Wallabies next year then that would be great. If he's not then I'm not going to be too worried. Plenty of other guys have put up their hands.

 

[Zander]

You saw it within the first 50 seconds of the Wales match. Folau is a 13.

High ball is important no doubt about it but the damage Folau can do at 13 is greater.

 

[Braveheart81]

You saw it within the first 50 seconds of the Wales match. Folau is a 13.

High ball is important no doubt about it but the damage Folau can do at 13 is greater.

I really don't get how. His impact at fullback has been massive. He gets the ball in counter attack and picks and chooses where he enters the backline in attack.

From fullback he can hit the line in close to the ruck off Cooper where he scored against Scotland or wider out where he has made it a habit of breaking tackles and setting up tries for the winger.

He has shown an increasing ability to read the game and doesn't need to be in the centres to get the ball.

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk

 

[Zander]

Michael Cheika gets it, just wait and see. It's going to be amazing.

 

[Scrubber2050]

It seems the opinion of most that KB (Kurtley Beale)'s defence at 12 or 13 is suspect.

Folau has made 15 his own.

therefore I think KB (Kurtley Beale), when back to top form, will warm the pine to cover several spots.

Its great to me that he is on track and that should be terrific for depth and the inevitable injuries.

 

[Paradox]

Folau must be kept at fullback. He's an absolute weapon there and forces teams to adjust their kicking tactics. Just a massive threat.