The dying - perhaps death - of Rugby in Australia.

[wamberal]

In today's Australian there is an interview with Bill Pulver. Now, I am well aware that all incoming CEO's inevitably paint the worst possible financial picture of the organisation they are taking over, the reasons are obvious. Firstly, if there is a recovery, they look all the better for having succeeded. Secondly, and more pertinently, the dire financial outlook gives them carte blanche to take sweeping action (for example, JON canned the ARC because of the financial situation, without any open debate).

That said, if Pulver is correct, and the ARU ran at a deficit last year, and will be in deficit again in 2014 and 2015, then it is time for serious people at all levels of the game to get serious, and get together. If the game cannot at least break even, we are in serious trouble.


We need stakeholders at all levels to put their personal interests, their pet grievances, and their pettiness behind them, and all must agree to make the sacrifices that are apparently essential for the game to survive here as a serious sport.


We are now running fourth in a four horse race, we have a generation of kids who have never seen a decent game of rugby on FTA, or anywhere else for that matter, and (in Sydney at least) whose state school either no longer plays the game, or does not play it seriously.

 

[Scoey]

On the "rain kept the numbers down in Sydney" theory, there's one thing I don't understand as I've never been to any games in any of the Sydney Stadiums. How wet do you get if it's raining there? I ask this because the weather has nothing to do with my decision to go watch the Reds at Suncorp. Unless you're in the front 15-20 rows you'll stay pretty dry at Suncorp. Or is it more to do with the getting to and from the game in the rain that is the turn off? Just trying to understand the problem.

 

[qwerty51]

Well I was planning to go all week and didn't only because of the rain and subsequent calling off of the curtain raiser. I'd rather watch at home/pub than get wet and I'm sure theres thousands like me so the rain is a legitimate excuse.

 

[Badger]

How wet do you get if it's raining there? I ask this because the weather has nothing to do with my decision to go watch the Reds at Suncorp. Unless you're in the front 15-20 rows you'll stay pretty dry at Suncorp. Or is it more to do with the getting to and from the game in the rain that is the turn off? Just trying to understand the problem.

Traffic can get pretty bad around the Moore Park area and as the game was on just after peak hour, the rain may have added to discourage people from coming. It will be interesting to see how many turn up for the next home game against the Cheetahs which is also on a Friday night.

The SFS is 25 years old and is starting to show its age. The management are looking at doing renovations including extending the roof. I find the current roof is pretty useless in protecting large parts of the crowd from the rain.

As for the Olympic Stadium, it's not well liked as a venue by many Sydneysiders due to it location, atmosphere etc. If it was up to me, I would bulldoze the thing.

The Tahs say they have 14K members, so if the crowd numbers continue to dwindle, questions will be asked about the make up of this number.

 

[Pfitzy]

Problem is some of the Waratahs crowd is made up of utterly useless coights who are there for the hob nob, not the rugby. The pricks watch like it's on TV in front if them and the atmosphere is shit for that reason.

Fifteen thousand fans in the SFS could generate some swell if they knew how to support a team, but these elitist George Street cock smokers wouldn't know how to be fans if they got a shortlist of bullet points in their copy of the Fin Review.

 

[Bardon]

In today's Australian there is an interview with Bill Pulver. Now, I am well aware that all incoming CEO's inevitably paint the worst possible financial picture of the organisation they are taking over, the reasons are obvious. Firstly, if there is a recovery, they look all the better for having succeeded. Secondly, and more pertinently, the dire financial outlook gives them carte blanche to take sweeping action (for example, JON canned the ARC because of the financial situation, without any open debate).

That said, if Pulver is correct, and the ARU ran at a deficit last year, and will be in deficit again in 2014 and 2015, then it is time for serious people at all levels of the game to get serious, and get together. If the game cannot at least break even, we are in serious trouble.


We need stakeholders at all levels to put their personal interests, their pet grievances, and their pettiness behind them, and all must agree to make the sacrifices that are apparently essential for the game to survive here as a serious sport.


We are now running fourth in a four horse race, we have a generation of kids who have never seen a decent game of rugby on FTA, or anywhere else for that matter, and (in Sydney at least) whose state school either no longer plays the game, or does not play it seriously.

As an outsider I see part of the problem being the 4 horse race. Competing in the domestic market is obviously important for Aus rugby. However in terms of making money, of the 4, the ARU and the S15 franchises are in the best position to exploit markets outside Australia.

The ARU and the S15 teams should be looking to make more inroads into Asian markets where 7s has already gained a foothold and where the 15 a-side game is growing in popularity. The game is growing in North America at a high rate and with Argentina now in the Rugby Championship there will be more interest in the S15 competition there also.

The ARU and especially the S15 franchises should be trying to raise their profiles in these markets and take advantage of their not being a commensurate local product to compete for fans. The most successful sports teams in the world are those who have a worldwide fan base. These days the global market is much more important than your position in your local market. I'm not saying don't try to compete with NRL, AFL etc. locally I'm saying they shouldn't get tied up in the local issues to the extent that they miss the opportunities abroad.

Why shouldn't there be a Reds fan club in Hong Kong, Warratahs fans in Tokyo, dedicated Force supported in Buenos Aires etc. As I've written before it's not something exclusive to Australia. I really worry whether our sport is doing enough to position itself to exploit the increase in popularity that the Olympics will bring. We're more global than NRL or AFL but we've a long way to go to catch soccer.

The clubs who are successful are the ones who realise that it doesn't matter if a fan is paying for merchandise is AUD, HKD, USD, JPY, EUR etc. and the same goes for TV rights. Having a small but growing slice of a huge pie is much better than having the largest slice of a small pie.

They should be focusing on growing their product in these markets and making a lot more money than they do now. But if they do the ARU should be smart and have a portion set aside for the purposes of developing the game in Australia.

Our European clubs are already realising this. Especially Saracens who may be the model for the future for many clubs and franchises who want to continue to exist in the future.

 

[barbarian]

Problem is some of the Waratahs crowd is made up of utterly useless coights who are there for the hob nob, not the rugby. The pricks watch like it's on TV in front if them and the atmosphere is shit for that reason.

Fifteen thousand fans in the SFS could generate some swell if they knew how to support a team, but these elitist George Street cock smokers wouldn't know how to be fans if they got a shortlist of bullet points in their copy of the Fin Review.

Atmosphere was quite good on Friday night for some reason. It is the first time I have ever seen the Tahs gain a clear advantage because of the crowd- Shota Horie didn't throw the ball into the lineout because he couldn't hear the call. FK to the Tahs, try to Paddy Ryan. Try assist to the crowd.

First time for everything.
.

 

[Lindommer]

Lack of marketing would lead to a crowd of 11,000. The rain may have been a factor but it rained more in Brisbane on Friday and the game in Brisbane was delayed until a start time of 8:25pm local time to accommodate the Tahs - still produced a crowd of over 30,000. Yeah, but you knew/expected the Reds to win, we were hopeful at best the Tahs would.

Scott, it's a damned side easier to get to Suncorp from the centre of Brisbane (what, a 20 minute walk at worst?) than it is to get from the middle of Sydney to the SFS. Peak hour traffic in that part of Sydney's a nightmare on Friday nights, and when there's rain it sets like concrete. If there's a big game at Moore Park, or a rock concert or whatever, traffic backs up through the Eastern Distributor all the way to the top of the Warringah Expressway at Cammeray.

But even taking these things into account 11,000 was very disappointing.

 

[JSRF10]

Our European clubs are already realising this. Especially Saracens who may be the model for the future for many clubs and franchises who want to continue to exist in the future.

Saracens are no club to emulate, the whole thing stinks starting with that prick Wray at the top. They have taken the global approach too far many of their loyal members aren't happy about home matches going to Brussels, Cape Town or NYC. By all means invest in merchandise and TV right in areas like Asia and America but don't take the regular season games away and further alienate your fanbase.

 

[Bardon]

Saracens are no club to emulate, the whole thing stinks starting with that prick Wray at the top. They have taken the global approach too far many of their loyal members aren't happy about home matches going to Brussels, Cape Town or NYC. By all means invest in merchandise and TV right in areas like Asia and America but don't take the regular season games away and further alienate your fanbase.

Very true but sadly I believe that Saracens will be used as the model for many clubs in the future. As more money comes into the game clubs and franchises have to be seen as a good investment for the money men who'll probably have little love for the game beyond the status attached to it, similar to those in soccer.

That's why I'm very worried that the national unions, clubs and especially the IRB are very slow to move on these things. If it's not led by the rugby establishment then rugby itself won't get it's slice of the pie. As a sport there's an opportunity here to do things the right way before the big money comes along and to have everything in place to make sure that rugby does actually benefit from the cash without having to sell the soul of our clubs and unions.

I think Munster's model of building themselves up from an unfashionable province over many years to what is now almost certainly the club with the largest fan base in the world is a very good model. But as the sport changes those who come to invest in clubs will want the fast buck and therefore the Sarries model will be held up as the shinning light.

If unions and clubs don't act now, then the Sarries model will be the only one available to them. This will result in a shift of power to the club owners, as we see now in France, on a global scale.

This is rugby we're talking about so I fully expect the custodians of our game to leave everything to the last minute.

 

[USARugger]

Saracens are no club to emulate, the whole thing stinks starting with that prick Wray at the top. They have taken the global approach too far many of their loyal members aren't happy about home matches going to Brussels, Cape Town or NYC. By all means invest in merchandise and TV right in areas like Asia and America but don't take the regular season games away and further alienate your fanbase.

If it means anything I literally wouldn't take the hour train ride to watch Saracens play in NYC because they play absolutely dogshit rugby. They are literally on the bottom of the list of franchises I'd like to see play in the States. A Sarries kick-fest could as easily lose more fans than it creates in the USA.

If it's any consolation the Wallabies (especially Kurtley or as our #8 likes to call him "KURTLAYYYY") have a pretty solid cult following in my college side. Multiple training singlets have been purchased I may add. This was definitely due to their Tri-Nation and some of their World Cup matches being available to us on live TV (even if it was at 3am).

 

[JSRF10]

If it means anything I literally wouldn't take the hour train ride to watch Saracens play in NYC because they play absolutely dogshit rugby. They are literally on the bottom of the list of franchises I'd like to see play in the States. A Sarries kick-fest could as easily lose more fans than it creates in the USA.
quote]

They tried to move their game against Munster to NYC to cash in on the Irish diaspora. Says all that you need to know about the club willing to give up home advantage in what was a must win game for $$$

 

[Braveheart81]

One thing I'd be interested in in terms of the Waratahs is how they rank in terms of Foxtel subscriptions compared to other franchises.

There is no doubt that there are many 'fair weather fans' in the true sense of the phrase after Friday night.

Out of the stadium members, Waratahs life members and Waratahs members, I'd be interested to know the statistics on Foxtel subscriptions. Is the percentage higher than at the other franchises?

I would bet that plenty of people (particularly stadium members) would choose to sit at home and watch it on TV instead of going to the game in the event of lousy weather.

There are a great deal of seats at the SFS that aren't under cover and that would have certainly scared many people off.

I wonder how many paid tickets (in terms of mebers/life members/other purchased tickets) didn't turn up?

I'm not trying to make excuses. As a Tahs fan who turns up rain, hail or shine, it is disappointing that the crowd was low and that many people stayed away. The fact of life in Sydney though is that fans are fickle and will use excuses such as the weather to not turn up.

 

[gel]

One thing I'd be interested in in terms of the Waratahs is how they rank in terms of Foxtel subscriptions compared to other franchises.

Seeing as Sydney is the largest city in Australia, then it stands to reason the Sydney area has a greater number of Foxtel subscriptions than any other city (statistically speaking). Whether those people have chosen to subscribe to Foxtel for the sole purpose of watching the Tahs play would be impossible to accurately determine. Subscriptions therefore are pretty much irrelevant.

Foxsports ratings (in Sydney) for the specific games involving the Tahs would be a much better indicator of the truth of what you propose.

 

[Braveheart81]

Seeing as Sydney is the largest city in Australia, then it stands to reason the Sydney area has a greater number of Foxtel subscriptions than any other city (statistically speaking). Whether those people have chosen to subscribe to Foxtel for the sole purpose of watching the Tahs play would be impossible to accurately determine. Subscriptions therefore are pretty much irrelevant.

Foxsports ratings (in Sydney) for the specific games involving the Tahs would be a much better indicator of the truth of what you propose.

Foxtel subscriptions amongst members/life members/stadium members would be relevant though which is what I was saying in my previous post.

I.e. how many people who already had a ticket to the game through whatever method could have just watched the game at home if they chose not to go because of the weather.

Those numbers wouldn't be high enough to have an impact on the actual overall TV ratings but could certainly have a material affect on the crowd numbers at the game.

 

[USARugger]

I'm wondering now if the Super Rugby franchise or the directors of the competition have considered a match in California to cash in on the huge Pacific Islander diaspora there! Definitely a thought to consider but I guess it wouldn't be as easy to pull off as NYC because of a much larger geographic scope for that particular diaspora.

**Directed at JSRF10 by the way, sorry, having issues quoting your last post

 

[Ignoto]

Is the weather THAT big of a killer for you Sydneysiders? It's been raining non-stop up here for a good 2 weeks and the Reds pulled 30K at Suncorp on Friday.

The second it started to sprinkle, I could see waves of spectators in the front part of Suncorp shuffle and put on a poncho or some form of coat. So, is the weather that big of a deterrent or is it more to do with getting to the venue in Sydney?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is the weather THAT big of a killer for you Sydneysiders? It's been raining non-stop up here for a good 2 weeks and the Reds pulled 30K at Suncorp on Friday.

The second it started to sprinkle, I could see waves of spectators in the front part of Suncorp shuffle and put on a poncho or some form of coat. So, is the weather that big of a deterrent or is it more to do with getting to the venue in Sydney?

your rain is warm

 

[cyclopath]

Is the weather THAT big of a killer for you Sydneysiders? It's been raining non-stop up here for a good 2 weeks and the Reds pulled 30K at Suncorp on Friday.

The second it started to sprinkle, I could see waves of spectators in the front part of Suncorp shuffle and put on a poncho or some form of coat. So, is the weather that big of a deterrent or is it more to do with getting to the venue in Sydney?

FAR more of Suncorp is covered adequately, the fancy-pantsy design of the SFS is shit at keeping rain out. Plus it was absolutely pissing down and cold in Sydney until < 1 hour prior, so for punters walking up to buy a ticket (like me) it was a no-brainer. Personally, if I had a membership and/ or a semi-covered seat, I'd have gone. But I knew I'd be completely uncovered so opted out. I can't speak for others.

 

[gel]

Foxtel subscriptions amongst members/life members/stadium members would be relevant though which is what I was saying in my previous post.

I.e. how many people who already had a ticket to the game through whatever method could have just watched the game at home if they chose not to go because of the weather.

Those numbers wouldn't be high enough to have an impact on the actual overall TV ratings but could certainly have a material affect on the crowd numbers at the game.

Only if they actually watched the game on the tube, though. Like Suncorp Stadium members there would be a very large number of stadium members that are really there for the rugby league and only turn up to the rugby come finals time (spare 4 seats on front of me for the last couple of years at Suncorp which can't be bought as they are taken by stadium members who have never turned up - we asked about them because we had friends that would like to have them). If there was a spike in the ratings due to the tahs playing the wet as opposed to dry maybe.

One thing I'd be interested in in terms of the Waratahs is how they rank in terms of Foxtel subscriptions compared to other franchises.

And I am not sure it is relevant to look at this as a comparison to other franchises. You are not really in competition with the Reds/Rebels/Force/Brumbies for fan numbers as those fans are geographically off the radar. You are in competition with Souths, Manly, Easts, Wests, StGeorge, Parramatta, Penrith, Cantebury, Cronulla, Western Sydney Wanderes, Sydney FC, Sydney Swans and GWS Giants. That is who you are in competition with for fans. Or is that what you meant by other franchises?

Putting it down on e-paper like that - 11000 is a bloody good turn out tbh.