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The dying - perhaps death - of Rugby in Australia.

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p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
According to Wayne Smiths article viewing numbers in Australia are up by 42% so far because we've kicked off with local derbies. I've also drawn the conclusion that the crowd figure for the Tahs game on the weekend was caused by the weather. The Tahs vs Rebels game had 25,000 (15%) viewers more this year than the corresponding fixture last year. You would expect that at least 50% of viewers are Sydney based.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...of-bumper-crowds/story-e6frg7o6-1226591929172
 
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No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Suggests that some of the increase in viewers could he due to poor weather in Sydney and a lesser extent Brisbane. It would not be a stretch to assume 10,000 of the additional 25,000 viewers would have attended the game. Hopefully the trend continues.
 

Badger

Bill McLean (32)
Will we ever see a co-ordinated effort from the ARU like the AFL's Community Program where there looks to be a proactive effort to engage the community by working with not only sporting organisations, but also community groups, to introducing the game of AFL to all and sundry. It's a long term effort, but one that is likely to pay off adding to its dominance of the Australian sporting landscape. http://aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=605

At the moment in rugby, it seems everything is focussed on the Lions tour which is all well and good. Hopefully, the ARU will have then replenished its pot of gold after the tour. Then what? Yes, there will be efforts to set up a viable third tier. What about engaging the community to generate a greater awareness of rugby. Rugby 7s will be in the Olympics so that should help spread the word, but it only comes around every four years.

Bill Pulver has only been in the CEO role since 1 February, so maybe he has plans, but from what I have heard it's only been about re-engaging with the rugby community rather than the whole Australian community. It will cost money and the results may not be apparent for a while, possibly after his stint as CEO. Nonetheless, it needs to be done if rugby is doesn't want to go the way of the NBL.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
Anyone noticed now that Rugby and the NRL have started up the A-League is getting little to no press. Nothing about Del Piero, a bit about the Wanderers. On the other hand there is quite a lot of rugby in the media.

Seems some of the early hysteria about Rugby being behind Soccer was premature.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Will we ever see a co-ordinated effort from the ARU like the AFL's Community Program where there looks to be a proactive effort to engage the community by working with not only sporting organisations, but also community groups, to introducing the game of AFL to all and sundry. It's a long term effort, but one that is likely to pay off adding to its dominance of the Australian sporting landscape. http://aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=605

At the moment in rugby, it seems everything is focussed on the Lions tour which is all well and good. Hopefully, the ARU will have then replenished its pot of gold after the tour. Then what? Yes, there will be efforts to set up a viable third tier. What about engaging the community to generate a greater awareness of rugby. Rugby 7s will be in the Olympics so that should help spread the word, but it only comes around every four years.

Bill Pulver has only been in the CEO role since 1 February, so maybe he has plans, but from what I have heard it's only been about re-engaging with the rugby community rather than the whole Australian community. It will cost money and the results may not be apparent for a while, possibly after his stint as CEO. Nonetheless, it needs to be done if rugby is doesn't want to go the way of the NBL.

Agreed. Having watched the Rebels/Reds game and then watching the last 30 mins of the Brisbane/Manly game on 9, the Rebels/Reds game was by far the superior contest in every sense. The League just seemed pedestrian in comparison. We need to get the game out in the wider community more to get people to realise that Rugby is a dynamic, entertaining and enjoyable game to watch and play.
 

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
I grew up loving both Rugby & League, League these days just bores the tits off of me and the commentary is getting more & more dire. I just can't get interested to watch a full game any more, let alone actually attend a match,where as the Rugby, I'm loathe to get up to fetch a drink or go to the toilet least I miss something.
It's a pity the media is so pro league, I think free to air coverage has a lot to do with it.It gives that game a massive leg up into the public psyche. The spider cam they used in the cricket & now in the league craps all over the rather over hyped ref cam. But I guess that's channel nines baby at teh moment.
I hope our game never sells it's soul entirely to the likes of Tom Waterhouse as they've done with league this year! :mad:
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
./...Snip../.. I'm loathe to get up to fetch a drink or go to the toilet least I miss something.
It's a pity the media is so pro league, I think free to air coverage has a lot to do with it.It gives that game a massive leg up into the public psyche
../...Snip../..
I hope our game never sells it's soul entirely to the likes of Tom Waterhouse as they've done with league this year! :mad:
1. There is a you tube video from SOO last year at Suncorp of a classy female loig supporter who was similarly loathe to leave her seat to visit the bathroom. :) Some commentary on G&GR about it as well IIRC. Not sure that that was precisely what you meant with your comment but couldn't resist.

2. Media has to talk up mungoball, because they have so much money invested in it for the TV rights.

3. Concur with the who anti-gambling thing. Footytipping is one thing, but these sports bookies are bottom dwellers making an absolute killing out of exploiting the most vulnerable in the community.
 

Penguin

John Solomon (38)
Hahah no Hugh, if I have to go I'll make it to the nearest convenience, but I'll hang on till a break in play if I can!
The media hype with the league is so construed & feels so fake I'm surprised the general public can't see right through it.... but then I guess show's like A Current Affair & crap reality tv are very popular with the masses to. The majority of people watch & listen to what the mainstream media tell them to. I don't really want Rugby to have to sell it's soul just for popularity's sake.
I think sports betting has it's place but I don't think it's in any games best interests to have them as genuine stakeholders & it's advertising should be curtailed.
 

Elfster

Alex Ross (28)
1. There is a you tube video from SOO last year at Suncorp of a classy female loig supporter who was similarly loathe to leave her seat to visit the bathroom. :) Some commentary on G&GR about it as well IIRC. Not sure that that was precisely what you meant with your comment but couldn't resist.

2. Media has to talk up mungoball, because they have so much money invested in it for the TV rights.

3. Concur with the who anti-gambling thing. Footytipping is one thing, but these sports bookies are bottom dwellers making an absolute killing out of exploiting the most vulnerable in the community.

From the games I have seen of league so far the salient points are: the game is only there to provide another opportunity for betting, the coverage is full of dramatically exaggerated hyperbole ramming personalities and manufactured history down viewers', readers' or listeners throats (eg SBW having the most significantly historically important comeback in humanity since Jesus Christ) and the side with the most tattoos wins the game.
 

terry j

Ron Walden (29)
I grew up loving both Rugby & League, League these days just bores the tits off of me and the commentary is getting more & more dire. I just can't get interested to watch a full game any more, let alone actually attend a match,where as the Rugby, I'm loathe to get up to fetch a drink or go to the toilet least I miss something.
It's a pity the media is so pro league, I think free to air coverage has a lot to do with it.It gives that game a massive leg up into the public psyche. The spider cam they used in the cricket & now in the league craps all over the rather over hyped ref cam. But I guess that's channel nines baby at teh moment.
I hope our game never sells it's soul entirely to the likes of Tom Waterhouse as they've done with league this year! :mad:


I grew up as a nsw schoolboy, all I EVER knew was league. State school I guess I'd better add. There might have been a few minutes at the end of the sports report on rugby, never really noticed.

The point being, there was simply NO coverage of ruby at all in any real sense.

Then when I was a teenager I ended up at a private school, all of a sudden I was playing this completely foreign game. And what's worse, they never taught me the rules! Aw man, I was forever being penalised as all I did was play league in a game of union.

'Of COURSE you gotta fall on the guy, how else do you tackle him' haha. PFWt, penalty, going off feet.

Anyway, still in those days there was no tv coverage at ll (talking seventies here) so kinda fell back to watching league. And IIRC there were some damned good games in league back then. I remember it was when the mortimer bros were running around with canterbury, and yeah they did throw the ball around, was good entertaining stuff.

Forward in time, and it was only in hindsight that I noticed the gradual change in my responses to the games, I used to watch the 'pinnacle' of league, the origin games. By that stage had already given up on the regular comp games.

I realised that I used to read books while 'watching' the games! I'd only glance up when a try was scored. It had gotten so boring so gradually that I never kinda noticed my changing attitude.

Then one day I must have caught a rugby match. As I said, had played it (sort of) but never had a chance to actually watch.

Man, what is THIS? Non stop, ever changing, enthralling. A THINKING game. Not going well in the scrums? Ok, stick to line outs. Get a penalty? ok, YOU choose. Not this one limited choice as in league, pack a scrum. Take a tap. go for a lineout. Whatever.

Not that you are interested in my epiphany haha, but there is a point I want to make. In my experience, it is all about exposure. I never really KNEW there was a game called rugby if you follow me. That's because I grew up in nsw, played league as all my state school fellows did, never saw a game on tv ever. (so that is one thing pay tv has done for the game)

And in a nutshell THAT is what the game has to overcome. MOST people when they come across different rules simply reject it. They do not want to take the time to give it a go. They just stick with what they already know.

I might not have made this post except for a curious set of circumstances I came across just this afternoon. I FINALLY made it out to the local rugby ground today, have been meaning to do that for a few years now. Quite enjoyed myself, even tho I think it was only trials of some sort. I dare say when the comp proper kicks off I'll be a bit more regular.

Anyway, the curious circumstance I spoke of?

I have already made the point that exposure has a lot to do with getting new people to the game. It was hot outside, so inside I went for the aircon comfort of the cluhouse.

Outside, thru the windows were the rugby games.

but what was on the big screen in the rugby clubhouse?

League games. Manly and brisbane was it? Then another league game. I mean who give a flying what it was.

I mean it is not as if they cannot play league game, of course they can do what they want, no real skin off my nose.

It was just that I was struck with what seemed to me writ large the essential problem the game faces, the constant overpowering presence of league and our need to combat that.

So it seemed a little, dunno, ironic that on that huge screen were some replays of league games.

Just kinda struck me dumb somehow.

Meh, maybe I should not have said all this, of no real importance in and of itself. just kinda symbolic in some way.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
^ good post terry j. I was similar. I never saw a game of rugby until I started playing in my teens.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
I was exposed to Rugby most of my life but League was the dominant game. However, that all changed around the time of Super League. My old man hated what SL represented and turned away from League and really got into his Rugby, he'd always watched Test matches and NSW vs QLD so Rugby was a natural fit for him. I had already left the game and was playing Soccer but with SL and the advent of Super Rugby my preferences were sealed. There is just so much going on in a game of Rugby both on and off the ball.
 

Almost 2 old

Chris McKivat (8)
Rugby wont die as it has always had an appeal to all sections of the community, the purists, the disenfrancised from mungo & afl, the GPS crowd, the Uni students, the proffesionals, the Armed services, the amatuers and people who just accidentally found themselves playing it because they didn't necessarily fit the "cool crowd" that played mungo or AFL depending on what part of Aust you came from. This system suited us because for so long we were amatuer but it didn't necessarily give us access to the best or broardest audience of players or sponsors first time. Community Rugby and community acceptance is the key to survival. I am now playing with and coaching players who are just reaching 20's who have had rugby as their "first choice" sport all the way since U8's. This is because of the effort by voluntier Community Rugby. This is the cornerstone of the sport which the ARU has been blindly ignoring. Mr Pulver has an opportunity to really make inroads into the mungo and afl and cement Rugby as the "first choice" sport for so many younger kids. By helping community rugby the ARU is lifting its own profile. We are probably the only sport that is still a size specific sport which can cater for all. It will be interesting to see how he goes , or, will he keep on the "Elite Player" and "Big Ticket Sponsor" direction of J O'N. Would love to see ARU sponsor Little A's or Clean up Australia Day
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
% growth in unique spectators leaves ARU at the top of the heap!
they are growing which is a definite positive. Mungo's are declining rapidly and the most interesting aspect is the horrid decline in cricket, though given the product they offer and the entertainment value this is unexpected. why go to the G for a full day to watch quite a boring sport when you could just watch it on tv - tune in and out as required and get other things done.
$ value of entertainment for minute of the game (if measurable) would be verrrry low in cricket.
I have been very impressed with soccer's form this year in aus. that said ,the soccer is quite poor, but they are drawing crowds in Sydney. WSW will heavily detract from GWS as far as I am concerned.

on the back of impending success by the wallabies, things will move up for the ARU. The kiwis are fast approaching a rebuildling phase as DC, McCaw and other illustrious greats retire. Nonu and Smith will leave centres gaps and their potential replacements have shown me no reason to think they are any better than the potential XV australia can produce. with RWC 15 two years away, i personally do not think the AB will win. they are going to rely too much on older players and make similar mistakes as Aus did in 2007.
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
agree. but they have a lot of churn coming up in Woodcock, McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Kahui soon gone, Corey Jane is 30 (old for a winger).
Sam Cane is good, but surely not better than pocock, gill and hooper.
Cruden is quality, but i think wallabies have the potential to have at least as good a 10, whether QC (Quade Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua or Lealiifano.
centres - as i said above (tho i admit the wallabies suffer in the 13 position).
they will always have good wingers, but australia has plenty too with tomane, speight, ioane, shipperly, cummins, vuna, folau, betham etc.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
If I was the ARU and I was asked to spruik these numbers:
AFL $425m
NRL $135.5m
A-League $95.2m
Rugby $70.1m

I'd look at the number of professional teams that generate that revenue.

AFL have 18 teams
NRL has 16 teams, plus 2 State of Origin and the Kangaroos = 19 revenue generating teams
Rugby has 5x 15 Super rugby teams and the Wallabies = 6 revenue generating teams
Soccer has 10 A-League clubs and the Socceroos = 11 revenue generating teams

Break that down per team and the order is:

AFL = $23.6m/team
Rugby = $11.7m/team
Soccer = $8.7m/team
NRL = $7.1m/team

I think we're doing OK.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
agree. but they have a lot of churn coming up in Woodcock, McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Kahui soon gone, Corey Jane is 30 (old for a winger).
Sam Cane is good, but surely not better than pocock, gill and hooper.
Cruden is quality, but i think wallabies have the potential to have at least as good a 10, whether QC (Quade Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua or Lealiifano.
centres - as i said above (tho i admit the wallabies suffer in the 13 position).
they will always have good wingers, but australia has plenty too with tomane, speight, ioane, shipperly, cummins, vuna, folau, betham etc.
A bigger problem for us at 10 is the dearth of quality at 9 - White looks like the heir apparent but he's an unknown quantity over a long season and/or at test level.
Based on this season, and Sunday in particular, I would say Betham is many moons away from the wallabies. Not sure about the others but you'd have to say Folau at this stage wont be in union beyond 2013
 
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