The Awful Truth About The ARU's Financial Position

[Brumby Runner]

The school v clubs levy discussion highlights once again how the ARU has essentially lost control of its development structure by outsourcing it to schools.

I understand why the ARU can't levy schools but can levy clubs. I think it's wrong on every level - particularly when the argument that Pulver is running is that people who participate and thus gain enjoyment from the game should pay. (not an argument I agree with, but's that's another matter)

It all reminds me of pre-revolutionary France where the nobility were exempt from paying taxes, but the peasants had to pay taxes, levies and feudal dues to keep the kingdom going.

Sounds just like Australia today.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'd be surprised if the IRB are watching the Auckland 9s. There are after all only 2 places in the world where league is bigger than rugby; Australia & PNG. I'd imagine that if the IRB had even heard about the 9s, they'd snort something like Olympics, Rio 2016.

You're right when you say we are at a competitive disadvantage compared to the NRL & AFL, but that's the reality we face. It's one of the reasons we can't afford to pay our CEO the same as they do (the NRL banked $50 million in profit for 2013).

I don't underestimate the size of the task facing Bill Pulver, from what I can see he's going to have his work cut out maintaining our position let alone improving it. Short term, the best we can hope for is some on-field success for Wallabies and Waratah on which to build some profile.

Sorting out the confused mess that is junior development, with the current multi-layered, multi-administered competing school and club systems is akin to Heracles fighting the Hydra. With his GPS private school background, I'm not sure he even appreciates the problem.

The fact that he can place a levy on junior clubs, but is powerless to impose the same levy on school teams is as stark an illustration of the problem as one can find.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I hope the sages at the IRB are having a close look at the success of the Auckland Nines.

The future is coming, like it or not. We either anticipate it, and position ourselves to survive and, hopefully, prosper, or we can always go back to being an amateur, community-based, game (as some of our posters think we should apparently).

Very few Australians are interested in scrums, or mauls, (and particularly rolling mauls). Unless the game is speeded up, cleaned up, made simpler, and more accessible, there is only one way it is going to go. Down.

If the future involves the Leaguiefication of Rugby then count me among those happy to "go back to being an amateur, community-based game."

Fortunately the rest of the Rugby-playing world sees no need for the dumbing-down of our code to attract the interest of those with impaired attention spans.
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[wamberal]

If the future involves the Leaguiefication of Rugby then count me among those happy to "go back to being an amateur, community-based game."

Fortunately the rest of the Rugby-playing world sees no need for the dumbing-down of our code to attract the interest of those with impaired attention spans.
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Oh, good Bruce. I can just get back to my knitting and stop worrying about the future of the game.

Incidentally, I do not know how long you have been watching rugby, but it has been leaguified to a very great extent in my lifetime.



Maybe we could go back to kicking out on the full from everywhere, goals from a mark, pockets in shorts, no lifting in lineouts, charging at conversions once the ball is placed on the ground, wingers throwing the ball into lineouts, forwards being forwards - none of this sea-gulling in the backs nonsense, and lemons at half-time. That would ensure our purity, wouldn't it? No need to worry about nasty competing sports.


Oh, and as for community based sports, Bruce, I do remember when rugby was community based. We need more of that now. Lots of rugby communities out there are struggling, mate. Once upon a time district clubs were strengthened by the output of institutions like yours. Would you consider helping them out a bit? Maybe we could establish a Rod Phelps Trophy, to be awarded to the university rugby graduate who does the most in any one year for a district club.

 

[TOCC]

I'm with Bruce, rugby union carries enough market appeal without having to water down the rules and remove the game from the scrums, mauls, rucks and line outs, everything which makes the game unique. Rugby Union has scored massive rating and crowds in the past which tells me there is obviously genuine interest in the game its just the means of making it accessible to the public which is doing the game an injustice.

There are reasons as to why the game is struggling financially, the rules are part of that, but the rules are also a massive reason people continue to follow the game, the simplicity of the NRL may appeal to a wider market but the simplicity of the rules is also what makes it boring to watch, makes all the game predictable, leaves little to imagination in moves and styles of play... There is no variety because there is little room within the rules to push the boundaries...No thanks

 

[I like to watch]

It's not a matter of watering things down.
Depowering the hit is a good example.it is a change that has improved the game without watering anything down.
Remember the Tahs/Saders game?
2 points in it,6 minutes to go,and they spent it collapsing scrums.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Oh, and as for community based sports, Bruce, I do remember when rugby was community based. We need more of that now. Lots of rugby communities out there are struggling, mate. Once upon a time district clubs were strengthened by the output of institutions like yours. Would you consider helping them out a bit? Maybe we could establish a Rod Phelps Trophy, to be awarded to the university rugby graduate who does the most in any one year for a district club.

Actually, wamberal, I'm a wee bit busy being President of an organisation which has over 40 clubs competing in different sports, quite a few of which are so successful that my organisation is arguably the major non-governmental sporting development body in Australia.

And I have had some involvement in district rugby clubs. Before focussing on sport at Sydney University, I spent over 20 years in committee positions and coaching at three different clubs in the Illawarra, including being foundation President of a club which is still thriving as it enters its 45th year of competition.

In view of your incessant urging of Sydney Uni members to get involved with helping district clubs and your inference today that people of our vintage should be doing so, I presume you have been very much involved in local rugby since you moved north. Please update us.
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[Inside Shoulder]

we can always go back to being an amateur, community-based, game (as some of our posters think we should apparently).

Which ones?
I think most posters are complaining that the relationship should be one in which the grass roots support the pros with attendance etc which the pros reciprocate by providing some $$ to keep the community game (which supplies their players) afloat.
At the moment we have the ARU demanding our moral and financial support, tinkering with the clubs and sending nothing back.
I think that's what most people find galling.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm starting to think you should just follow league Wamberal you seem to buy everything they sprout, hook line and sinker.
They seem to think "nines" can have a real go at getting into the Commonwealth Games.
Someone needs to tell them that 7's have been in it since 1998.

Should we tell them that 7's are at the next olympics os let that be a big surprise?
Luckily union's involvement in the olympics and commonwealth games does not depend on the ARU.

 

[Quick Hands]

ARU
Schools
Clubs

Pick who's who

 

[RugbyFuture]

Actually, wamberal, I'm a wee bit busy being President of an organisation which has over 40 clubs competing in different sports, quite a few of which are so successful that my organisation is arguably the major non-governmental sporting development body in Australia.

not criticising your point bruce, but universities are effectively government funded. Even if some of the funding is through SSAF which is a government regulated fund. The crazies at the SRC and NUS level sydney wide keep complaining about the amount you guys get!

 

[wamberal]

I'm starting to think you should just follow league Wamberal you seem to buy everything they sprout, hook line and sinker.

You're starting to think, well, that's a good start. Never too late.


I have not watched a minute of league in the last twenty years, although I did play both sports in my prime (which was not all that prime, but still).


I only look at the facts. The facts are that loig is far more popular than our game in Australia, by absolutely every measure, and the popularity gap is increasing. Ditto the AFL. Soccer is actually on FTA, and we are running fourth out of four. Look at the money that NRL and AFL get from the broadcasters, and then cast an eye at our pitiful earnings.



If it had not been for the Lions tour last season the ARU would probably be in receivership now, according to Pulver. Ratings were down. It was only a former NRL player who saved the bloody season for us, to the extent that it was saved. Think about that, with your newfound cognitive abilities.


You buggers can all sit around with your hands over your eyes pretending that everything in the garden is coming up roses. It isn't.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You're starting to think, well, that's a good start.

You buggers can all sit around with your hands over your eyes pretending that everything in the garden is coming up roses. It isn't.

That first line is a corker.
No point talking to us or the ARU about most (all?) of what you perceive to be wrong with the game.
You need a ticket to Dublin to talk to the IRB (The "I" by the way stands for "International") - they'll be absolutely fascinated with your proposal for a game with the same laws as league but which is called "rugby union".
Good luck with it all.

 

[TOCC]

You buggers can all sit around with your hands over your eyes pretending that everything in the garden is coming up roses. It isn't.

Wait, aren't you the person defending the John O'Neil reign at the ARU?
Defending those who recruited him and came up with his contract?


And for the record mate, just because us "buggers" don't want to see the fine game of rugby union turned into some bastardised version of rugby league doesn't mean that we are happy with the running of the sport.

 

[p.Tah]

To some extent I'm with Wamberal.

No one on this forum can say the laws of rugby are right, yet there are still some fantastic games, but equally there are a lot of dire ones.

Wamberal isn't saying turn Rugby into Rugby League. He is saying make the game more appealing, easier to understand. That doesn't mean watering down the game or forcing the game to lose what makes it unique. The game of rugby has constantly evolved. The game is vastly different today than it was 100, 50 or even 20 years ago.

Yes its an international game, but in only about 10 countries is it popular. The IRB wants to expand and gain a decent toe hold in a lot more countries. To do so it needs to refine the game. The Australian market is a key indicator as to how the game is progressing. If the game does well here, it probably will do well in these new markets.

At the moment collectively over $2.8billion has been given to the AFL and NRL for 5 year broadcast contracts. Rugby gets $25million a year. There is a huge pie of broadcast revenue and we get bugger all.

Make the game easier to understand and more will watch it and more will play it. That is the only way we will get more players of Israel Folau's calibre coming up through rugby's ranks rather than bringing them across from another code. Better players will ultimately make it a much better game for all of us to enjoy.

Anyway, way off topic. Let's take up our pitch forks again and wave them at the ARU.

 

[TOCC]

I actually think there is nothing wrong with the game, Wallabies ratings/crowds have dropped off because they aren't competitive with the best anymore, not because the rules have made the game slower and more boring to watch.. The rules are there and teams play a game within the rules, some teams push them one way and other teams bend them another altogether.



The Super Rugby GF in 2011 broke the ratings record for Foxtel which was again broken later that year when Australia played New Zealand in the RWC semi-final. The 2003 RWC GF is still one of the highest ratings shows to ever be broadcast on FTA tv. Ratings for the Bledisloe nearly doubled from 2012 to 2013, the British and Irish Lions series had combined ratings of 4million for the 3 test series in 2013.

Whats the point of all that you ask?... Well thats an average of 1.3million viewers who watched a series without needing rule changes. The Reds broke Fox Sports ratings records under the same rules you want to now change. The 2011 Semi-Final and the 2003 RWC GF broke ratings records under the same rules that you now want to change.

Screw changing the rule, just get rugby on free to air TV where it is accessible to the broader market.

 

[p.Tah]

TOCC, you're absolutely right if we want people who tune in for event TV only (RWC, Bledisloe, Super finals) most of the viewers are watching a spectacle, they have no idea what is going on.

I take lots of non-rugby folk to Waratah games. I am happy to, but I spend most of my time explaining what is happening. Some of the time I have no idea myself. If we want rugby to grow and I mean really grow people need to understand the game. That way they'll follow club rugby, super rugby and not just the one off 'spectaculars'. If more follow the game at all levels, more will play.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Fuck changing the rule, just get rugby on free to air TV where it is accessible to the broader market.

I think that this is a key issue, TOCC. If international standard rugby was available on a regular basis to all sports viewers I think many of our difficulties would be solved. Unfortunately it's a problem without an obvious solution as Foxtel can be expected to use its financial muscle to ensure its monopoly position persists.
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[Quick Hands]

Although Foxtel don't have the right to the 6 Nations, it's on Sentata Sports (which requires an extra payment to access) and it's also on ESPN, but at fairly random times. You basically have to be channel surfing to catch it.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Although Foxtel don't have the right to the 6 Nations, it's on Sentata Sports (which requires an extra payment to access) and it's also on ESPN, but at fairly random times. You basically have to be channel surfing to catch it.

But the major problem, QH, is that none of the Northern Hemisphere rugby is available on free-to-air. Contrast that with the soccer situation where SBS offers very extensive coverage of local and European games.
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