Sydney Subbies 2025

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

I was however pretty surprised that there wasn't any engagement from the local Subbies clubs with the 'non Shute Shield' kids as the season drew to an end. I reckon there would probably be 10-20 graduating year 12 kids (1st XV and 2nd XV players) who would be interested in playing rugby post school in a more social environment (I know they don't want to play Shute Shield level). I know that the Subbies clubs can't woo them during year 12 with beers and a BBQ (as most are still under 18), but would have thought sending someone down to training / watching a match and then chatting to the boys after a match telling them what Subbies is like might have gotten some traction with them.

Like you said, the top level GPS, CAS and ISA players are always going towards the Shute Shield clubs, but I think there are plenty of players to be picked up at the level below that. These kids have played rugby for the past 6 year at school (and often club and rep up to U14-15), so there is no reason to think that they don't want to play rugby 1st year out of school. To me, all it would take is a bit of engagement, some information on what Subbies is about (and what it isn't about) and I think clubs could get them 1st year out of school. To me, keeping them after the first year is the hard thing.

This is 100% the approach of Knox with Colts are concerned as far as I'm aware. In the clubs prime they used to get the top tier guys in a year group over, nowadays that is unrealistic, and the shift has been to getting those glue guys who might have potential to grow their rugby abilities too, the 3rd/4th XV guys.. those guys seem to relish in leadership / heavily involved colts footy, and they end up being the guys who hang around after their colts days are over to filter into the grades.

I think they also see a bunch of those Shute colts guys come play their last year of eligible colts with the club, when their two options are another year of colts with their old school mates or going up into grade with a Shute club.

The challenge is keeping those higher tier guys around after that year. Further, the school used to have 8+ opens rugby teams 10+ years ago, I dare say that number is closer to 3-4 now, with soccer, AFL, concussion knowledge and student ethnic diversity changing the sports parents want their kids playing. So that 3rd to 4th XV player isnt as good as he used to be.. but still the glue of a subbies footy club.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

This is 100% the approach of Knox with Colts are concerned as far as I'm aware. In the clubs prime they used to get the top tier guys in a year group over, nowadays that is unrealistic, and the shift has been to getting those glue guys who might have potential to grow their rugby abilities too, the 3rd/4th XV guys.. those guys seem to relish in leadership / heavily involved colts footy, and they end up being the guys who hang around after their colts days are over to filter into the grades.

I think they also see a bunch of those Shute colts guys come play their last year of eligible colts with the club, when their two options are another year of colts with their old school mates or going up into grade with a Shute club.

The challenge is keeping those higher tier guys around after that year. Further, the school used to have 8+ opens rugby teams 10+ years ago, I dare say that number is closer to 3-4 now, with soccer, AFL, concussion knowledge and student ethnic diversity changing the sports parents want their kids playing. So that 3rd to 4th XV player isnt as good as he used to be.. but still the glue of a subbies footy club.

I think your last point there is a big concern for Australian rugby that is being over looked. In my area a number of schools used to have 3-4 sides and now only have 1 or run a 7s comp etc. Not to mention the drop off in junior clubs sides having teams all The way to 17s/opens.

As a result we are starting to see clubs struggling to get colts sides. We put this down to bad management by those clubs and sometimes it is but it may also be due to the drop in kids playing the game across the board. Which in turn we will see the impact on these clubs in 5-10 years as there older guys stop playing.
The numbers of kids playing have definitely dropped and it’s becoming to keep a player group across the board engaged for a full season

 

[Pfitzy]

Not to mention the drop off in junior clubs sides having teams all The way to 17s/opens.

As I've said in a few places now, we create hurdles at significant points in the journey:

U16 when school duties take some players away from clubs (or U15)
U18 when they leave schools
U20 when they leave Prem Colts

You've also got some situations like a local college who have a significant proportion of their players go into trades or others vocational education at 16 and can't risk getting injured.

 

[The ultimate ressie]

New year, same question. Where is that Phil Lawrence character

 

[Just a supporter]

That's a very good question. I assume he is still at St Pat's.

 

[Prodigy]

New year, same question. Where is that Phil Lawrence character

According to socials, he’s part of the coaching team at Norths Colts. He now belongs in the Premiership Colts chat…

 

[Pfitzy]

A random anecdote: was down at the Field Of Dreams today practising my drone flying (good boys get nice Christmas presents) and some local Oztag lads were training. I know their coach through a local junior RL club, and was chatting to him when this tall, amazingly fit-looking and familiar chap introduces himself.

Hugh Perrett still looks good enough to rip it up at Subbies level, but I was polite enough not to enquire what he was doing Saturdays

Good chat tho.

 

[Prodigy]

A random anecdote: was down at the Field Of Dreams today practising my drone flying (good boys get nice Christmas presents) and some local Oztag lads were training. I know their coach through a local junior RL club, and was chatting to him when this tall, amazingly fit-looking and familiar chap introduces himself.

Hugh Perrett still looks good enough to rip it up at Subbies level, but I was polite enough not to enquire what he was doing Saturdays

Good chat tho.

Subbies rugby vs coaching Kings 1st XV.....

 

[Pfitzy]

Subbies rugby vs coaching Kings 1st XV.....

I was thinking more along the lines of playing

 

[The ultimate ressie]

Interesting note
Div 1 kicks off day after Anzac day
Surely that will impact clubs with a heavy defence force contingent

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Interesting to see a number of Div 1 clubs delay the start of there pre season till February. Crazy to think clubs have started back already!

3 month block of preseason is a lot to ask guys to commit to on top of the season. One of the reasons I think we see a drop off in the middle of the year.

 

[Pfitzy]

Interesting to see a number of Div 1 clubs delay the start of there pre season till February. Crazy to think clubs have started back already!

3 month block of preseason is a lot to ask guys to commit to on top of the season. One of the reasons I think we see a drop off in the middle of the year.

I think a few are eyeing off preseason engagements like Kiama 7s and other tournaments, so it might not be full noise until later in Feb.

 

[Subbies Footy Enthusiast]

The Divisional makeup for Div 2 and 3 (& beyond) still seems very up in the air.

Div 2 (All of the below should have at least 3 and up to 4 Grades + Colts)
-Forest
-St Pats
-Petersham
-Briars
-UNSW
(5 clubs)

Unclear who then fills the void in Division 2^

Div 3 (All of the below should have 2 Grades + Colts)
-Knox
-Old Barker (talk of a Colts resurgence in 2025, after not having Colts in 2024)
-LCOI
-Hawkesbury Valley

-Merrylands (No Colts)
-Quins (No Colts, unless Easts 4ths Colts are transferred back to them from Sydney Harbour)

The dilemma from there is where everyone else fits in, and with a number of likely clubs in Div 3 not having their own Colts, but partnering with Div 4/5 clubs with Colts.

-Unless there is a partnership between these clubs, Epping and Beecroft don’t seem cut out for Div 2. Beecroft have Colts but Epping don’t
-Hills back to 2 Grades and no Colts so presumably that means Div 4 or they partner with another club’s Colts and land in Div 3?
-Sydney Irish are probably strong enough to have 3 Grades in Div 2 however they don’t have Colts? Who could they partner with?
-Talk that Sydney Harbour want to drop down to Div 5 and return to being a one team club
-Any news from Hornsby, or Penrith?

Where do people see the dice landing here?

 

[Pfitzy]

Div 2:
Have seen Hills advertise 4 Grades + Colts on Social media, so they would be looking to stay?
Question marks over Beecroft but I think they could get to 3 Grades + Colts
Epping? Had enough for 3 Grades at the end of an unusual season. Colts still the question.
There might need to be a few training sessions before we know what's what with all 3 clubs.

Sydney Irish would have a strong case to move up if they can get Colts running in some fashion. They've got talent and depth for Grade at least. Might be the option if one of the incumbents can't fill the spot.

 

[Pfitzy]

Div 3:
I know Hornsby were working on Colts from mid-season - particularly after a successful return in 2024 for their mens and womens sides, making finals in all 3 and winning 2 trophies.
Raptors also pushing hard for Colts as well as Penrith.

If all 3 got a Colts side together - and that's a big if - and Sydney Irish go up, you'd be putting them into the division in favour of Oysters & Harlequins.

Question remains over Merrylands - surely with their strong Pasifika base they could get some young blokes in?

 

[Just a supporter]

According to socials, he’s part of the coaching team at Norths Colts. He now belongs in the Premiership Colts chat…

Good on him! Hope the guy does well

 

[Pfitzy]

I wonder if the Defence rugby cup is on this year?? Is it the same time?

If it is, not an ideal start for some clubs.

Believe it's back end of April, so rounds 2 & 3. Not ideal, but no worse than a wedding or other social event I guess..

 

[Just a supporter]

Believe it's back end of April, so rounds 2 & 3. Not ideal, but no worse than a wedding or other social event I guess..

If that's the case, clubs like Drummoyne, HH and Epping who have a strong continent won't be happy

 

[Pfitzy]

Div 4:
Let's assume Hornsby and Raptors go up and fill out Div 3 with Penrith.
Kings and Redfield had a pretty torrid season and might want to take a year to rebuild. Redfield had numbers but injuries stuffed them.
Suddenly we're down to 4 clubs here... Assuming everyone else (Chatswood, Canterbury, Wakehurst, Renegades) can stay.

At that point you need a couple of 5th Division clubs to come up, and someone from the top divisions to drop into 4th Div. Blacktown I know were looking at coming back up - from what I saw they certainly had numbers every week.

Maybe Manly Savers could get there as well? Who else from Div 5?

Convicts have had 2 teams in the past. Oatley (or Georges River) have also been higher than Div 5.

Maybe Div 4 ends up being Canterbury, Chatswood, Renegades, Wakehurst, Oatley, Savers, Blacktown, and 1 other from a higher division.

Important to lock in Div 2 so everyone can get clarity.

 

[Pfitzy]

If that's the case, clubs like Drummoyne, HH and Epping who have a strong continent won't be happy

It'll be Round 1 & 2 for Div 1 clubs.