Sydney Subbies 2025

[footy_footy]

The Divisional makeup for Div 2 and 3 (& beyond) still seems very up in the air.

Div 2 (All of the below should have at least 3 and up to 4 Grades + Colts)
-Forest
-St Pats
-Petersham
-Briars
-UNSW
(5 clubs)

Unclear who then fills the void in Division 2^

Div 3 (All of the below should have 2 Grades + Colts)
-Knox
-Old Barker (talk of a Colts resurgence in 2025, after not having Colts in 2024)
-LCOI
-Hawkesbury Valley

-Merrylands (No Colts)
-Quins (No Colts, unless Easts 4ths Colts are transferred back to them from Sydney Harbour)

The dilemma from there is where everyone else fits in, and with a number of likely clubs in Div 3 not having their own Colts, but partnering with Div 4/5 clubs with Colts.

-Unless there is a partnership between these clubs, Epping and Beecroft don’t seem cut out for Div 2. Beecroft have Colts but Epping don’t
-Hills back to 2 Grades and no Colts so presumably that means Div 4 or they partner with another club’s Colts and land in Div 3?
-Sydney Irish are probably strong enough to have 3 Grades in Div 2 however they don’t have Colts? Who could they partner with?
-Talk that Sydney Harbour want to drop down to Div 5 and return to being a one team club
-Any news from Hornsby, or Penrith?

Where do people see the dice landing here?

All for giving the clubs as much time as possible to try and get themselves sorted but I just can't see Div 2 being a functional 8 club division. Would require dramatic turnaround from Epping, Beecroft and/or Hills plus considerable growth from one or two of the 2024 Div3 clubs. It's difficult to see how there won't be gaps in the lower grade/Colts draws, which can often lead to forfeits as the year progresses and attrition of week to week rugby sets in.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Is focusing on the number of grade sides whether you can get a colts as the deciding factor the better option for grading sides given the struggle with clubs for Colts at the moment?

Dropping Epping and Beecroft out of Div 2 and bringing up Sydney Irish and Merrylands who have dominated that division for last few years.

Dropping Barker & Harbour? from Div 3 after a tough year for a strong Hornsby and adding Penrith to Div 3. Harbour is the hard one as they have traditionally been strong which is why they’ve moved up but there numbers haven’t backed it up.

Unsure about the bottom of the Div 4 comp and who would drop but surely there are a number of sides like Manly or one of the Southern sides (North Cronulla, Georges River) that could come up into that division

I know why Colts are important and I encourage clubs to get a colts side but it’s becoming harder and harder for clubs to “find” a colts side.

I don’t have an answer for how you manage the colts comp in Div 2/3 but this gives you a strong 8 team each division which benefits the other clubs getting games for there guys.

 

[Pfitzy]

I know why Colts are important and I encourage clubs to get a colts side but it’s becoming harder and harder for clubs to “find” a colts side.

Keeping a Colts side isn't easy to start with. Trying to get one off the ground is extremely difficult.

The last few years I've had prominent leads and the makings of a squad in November. By February the cupboard is almost bare.

Summer Holiday travel, new employment opportunities, other sports (or clubs) with more resources and better alignment....

I don't have any answers for the short term as far as Div 2/3 Colts is concerned.

However for the longer term the simple answer is better alignment across Community rugby in Sydney; a drum I've been banging so long I'm about to break my third pair of sticks...

 

[Prodigy]

Is focusing on the number of grade sides whether you can get a colts as the deciding factor the better option for grading sides given the struggle with clubs for Colts at the moment?

Dropping Epping and Beecroft out of Div 2 and bringing up Sydney Irish and Merrylands who have dominated that division for last few years.

Dropping Barker & Harbour? from Div 3 after a tough year for a strong Hornsby and adding Penrith to Div 3. Harbour is the hard one as they have traditionally been strong which is why they’ve moved up but there numbers haven’t backed it up.

Unsure about the bottom of the Div 4 comp and who would drop but surely there are a number of sides like Manly or one of the Southern sides (North Cronulla, Georges River) that could come up into that division

I know why Colts are important and I encourage clubs to get a colts side but it’s becoming harder and harder for clubs to “find” a colts side.

I don’t have an answer for how you manage the colts comp in Div 2/3 but this gives you a strong 8 team each division which benefits the other clubs getting games for there guys.

It's so much more than the number of players that you have. It's also about the quality of those players, their season-long availability and factoring in positional needs. You need 70 players to run a 3 grade club.
With Colts, it's not enough to have 20 colts. You need 25-28 to run a colts side and a coach with patience.

That leads into the other factor. Just looking at player numbers won't tell you what division a club should be in. If you have 70 players and 28 colts, but only 2 coaches, you're really hamstrung there as well.

 

[Pfitzy]

With Colts, it's not enough to have 20 colts. You need 25-28 to run a colts side and a coach with patience.

And a shitload of free time to chase people who only respond to Instagram messages

 

[Here To Do]

Div 1 draw and lower Divs' rounds/dates are up on Subbies site now - my wedding is the night before semis... oops!

I'm betting Div 2 looks pretty similar to the last few years, albeit with Forest replacing Newport. Subbies will try to maintain 8 clubs in as many divisions as possible for scheduling purposes, giving a 14 round double round-robin.

Hard to make a case for any other clubs to switch places unless you were to accept a club like Irish having to partner with another club for Colts - a tough ask considering Colleagues and Hunters Hill didn't set the world on fire last year in the Robertson.

 

[Pfitzy]

my wedding is the night before semis... oops!

Congrats!

Poor timing, but congrats!

 

[21mm]

my wedding is the night before semis... oops!

No pressure on the MC! Do they know they will presiding over one of the best callers in the business?

 

[Pfitzy]

Harbour is the hard one as they have traditionally been strong which is why they’ve moved up but there numbers haven’t backed it up.

A club with that many premierships should be growing at a rate of knots.

The fact they've been unable or unwilling to add even a 2nd Grade shows their intent.

 

[Give and go]

Any early predictions for Kentwell results this year? Winner? Runner-Up? Wooden spoon?

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Any early predictions for Kentwell results this year? Winner? Runner-Up? Wooden spoon?

- Drummoyne to win Kentwell this year watched them last year and they had a lot of skill across the park if they can hold onto the group.
- Tough to go past Mountains if they keep the same squad but I think Drummoyne will pip them. Hunters with a new coaching group and after over achieving last year I think Waverly will drop this year.
- Last place in Kentwell will go to newcomers Newport. They just won’t have the size to keep up with the big hitters in Div 1. There depth and skill will mean they will compete in the lower grades but Kentwell will be tough.
- Unless we see something different from Mosman we could see them at the bottom of the Div 1 club champs. They’ve come close over the last few years and could force a hard call for Subbies if Newport can find there feet in Div 1.

 

[Prodigy]

- Drummoyne to win Kentwell this year watched them last year and they had a lot of skill across the park if they can hold onto the group.
- Tough to go past Mountains if they keep the same squad but I think Drummoyne will pip them. Hunters with a new coaching group and after over achieving last year I think Waverly will drop this year.
- Last place in Kentwell will go to newcomers Newport. They just won’t have the size to keep up with the big hitters in Div 1. There depth and skill will mean they will compete in the lower grades but Kentwell will be tough.
- Unless we see something different from Mosman we could see them at the bottom of the Div 1 club champs. They’ve come close over the last few years and could force a hard call for Subbies if Newport can find there feet in Div 1.

Word going round is that they have recruit well from Eastwood mid-grades

 

[Crashy]

Word going round is that they have recruit well from Eastwood mid-grades

Does Eastwood have any players left for 7 grades this year?!

 

[footy_footy]

A potential answer to the lack of Colts teams has been posted on Subbies socials. A western sydney baabaas! Would be great if they could get it off the ground.

 

[Ref_Ted]

- Drummoyne to win Kentwell this year watched them last year and they had a lot of skill across the park if they can hold onto the group.
- Tough to go past Mountains if they keep the same squad but I think Drummoyne will pip them. Hunters with a new coaching group and after over achieving last year I think Waverly will drop this year.
- Last place in Kentwell will go to newcomers Newport. They just won’t have the size to keep up with the big hitters in Div 1. There depth and skill will mean they will compete in the lower grades but Kentwell will be tough.
- Unless we see something different from Mosman we could see them at the bottom of the Div 1 club champs. They’ve come close over the last few years and could force a hard call for Subbies if Newport can find there feet in Div 1.

Other word is Luke Smart for one is going to Souths 4th grade and won't be playing BM Kentwell.

 

[Ref_Ted]

Division 1 2025

 

[Prodigy]

Other word is Luke Smart for one is going to Souths 4th grade and won't be playing BM Kentwell.

If that’s the case, it will be interesting to see if Waldo Wessels, Jordan McGregor, Angus McGrath leave as well.
They’ve lost Tom Kwok, their 13, to the Two Blues.

 

[Pfitzy]

A potential answer to the lack of Colts teams has been posted on Subbies socials. A western sydney baabaas! Would be great if they could get it off the ground.

Ideally gets Colts going at one of the clubs out this way that want, but do not have. Merrylands, Renegades, Blacktown, Penrith, and Raptors.

A lot of challenges as I've said previously.

 

[Pfitzy]

If that’s the case, it will be interesting to see if Waldo Wessels, Jordan McGregor, Angus McGrath leave as well.
They’ve lost Tom Kwok, their 13, to the Two Blues.

Blueys Rugby on Instagram: "LEVELLED UP: The generals of our Kentwell forward pack and backline are back for season 2025 Waldo ‘the pride of South Africa’ Wessels and the ultimate competitor Chris Nay return to Blueys with another all-star Kentwell

89 likes, 2 comments - bluemountainsrugbyclub on January 22, 2025: "LEVELLED UP: The generals of our Kentwell forward pack and backline are back for season 2025 Waldo ‘the pride of South Africa’ Wessels and the ultimate competitor Chris Nay return to Blueys with another all-star Kentwell cast...

www.instagram.com

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

If that’s the case, it will be interesting to see if Waldo Wessels, Jordan McGregor, Angus McGrath leave as well.
They’ve lost Tom Kwok, their 13, to the Two Blues.

Looks like Mountains have heard the rumours and just announced Waldo as returning this year.