Sydney Subbies 2024

[Prodigy]

Cowboy Cup Round 1 draw (based on 2023 standings and Divisional rankings)
#1 Blue Mountains vs #32 wildcard spot for any clubs in Div 4 & 5 that didn't make semi finals
#2 Hunters Hill vs #31 North Cronulla
#3 Waverley vs #30 Oatley
#4 Drummoyne vs #29 Georges River
#5 Colleagues vs #28 Burraneer
#6 Mosman vs #27 Rockdale
#7 Petersham vs #26 Redfield
#8 Forest vs #25 Merrylands
#9 St Pats vs #24 Sydney Irish
#10 Lindfield vs #23 Manly Savers
#11 Newport vs #22 Lane Cove Old Iggies
#12 UNSW vs #21 Old Barker
#13 Epping vs #20 Knox
#14 Hills vs #19 Sydney Harlequins
#15 Briars vs #18 Beecroft
#16 Hawkesbury Valley vs #17 Sydney Harbour

 

[Champagne Rugby]

Cowboy Cup Round 1 draw (based on 2023 standings and Divisional rankings)
#1 Blue Mountains vs #32 wildcard spot for any clubs in Div 4 & 5 that didn't make semi finals
#2 Hunters Hill vs #31 North Cronulla
#3 Waverley vs #30 Oatley
#4 Drummoyne vs #29 Georges River
#5 Colleagues vs #28 Burraneer
#6 Mosman vs #27 Rockdale
#7 Petersham vs #26 Redfield
#8 Forest vs #25 Merrylands
#9 St Pats vs #24 Sydney Irish
#10 Lindfield vs #23 Manly Savers
#11 Newport vs #22 Lane Cove Old Iggies
#12 UNSW vs #21 Old Barker
#13 Epping vs #20 Knox
#14 Hills vs #19 Sydney Harlequins
#15 Briars vs #18 Beecroft
#16 Hawkesbury Valley vs #17 Sydney Harbour

Like the idea, but I would make it div 1/2 one comp and 3/4 the other comp, otherwise the contrast in skill would just be too much. I struggle to think of a Div 4 or 5 team that would want to take on Blue Mountains. You could play around with the fixtures based on how many teams in the division by giving the top x many teams a bye in week 1.

 

[Rucksmen]

"Rumour has it the boys from Holroyd have several ex Samoan internationals running around, a bit of a waste of talent in div 3"

Is this within the rules?

I would think there is a duty of care from a subbies perspective when in this case there is a 27 year old prop who was playing test matches for Samoa not 5 years ago, packing down against 3rd division battlers who train (at most) twice a week.

If it is within the rules and they have gone through the relevant processes then fair play to them, but seems like a potentially dangerous mismatch

 

[SubbiesSoftie]

If Epping can keep the teams they had on Saturday they will win a lot of games in the back end of the year. They beat the previously undefeated St Pat's 2s and 4s, quite comfortably. If they can keep it up those teams will be hard to beat in finals, which will leave some people scratching their head.

Unfortunately I think this may be a flash in the pan for Epping. 3 Yellow cards for Pats in 4's and an understrength 2's leads to a few unfortunate results, wouldn't say a 10 point loss is a 'comfortable' win for any team.

The upside down Epping experiment taking another victim I guess.

 

[Pfitzy]

Is this within the rules?

Subbies Ops Manual
Section 3 AMATEUR STATUS
3.3 Restrictions on Player Registration

 

[Pfitzy]

Watched the game between Irish and Merrylands. Fairly even.

Hardly like the ex-Samoa prop was destroying everyone at scrum time, and although it wasn't as good when he went off, they made a change to the second row at the same time.

Merrylands got up 12-5 by halftime using a bit of clatterball but played to their strengths and scored shotrly after halftime. Irish looked a little disjointed and will be ruing a few mistakes, but otherwise they're top 2 for a reason.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Unfortunately I think this may be a flash in the pan for Epping. 3 Yellow cards for Pats in 4's and an understrength 2's leads to a few unfortunate results, wouldn't say a 10 point loss is a 'comfortable' win for any team.

The upside down Epping experiment taking another victim I guess.

Understrengthed 2’s on just not allowed to drop 10 of their first graders this week?

Crazy people’s views on this ‘experiment’ when these games are all close and competitive.

 

[21mm]

Understrengthed 2’s on just not allowed to drop 10 of their first graders this week?

Crazy people’s views on this ‘experiment’ when these games are all close and competitive.

Its not ideal.
But i dont think Subbies wake up in the morning and think, 'im going to really mess this whole thing up today'.
Vision over a whole a clubs season rarely occurs ahead of when you would like to. From my experience, its hard to get players to tell me if they are playing on the weekend, let alone if they choose to run around for a whole season.

The decision was made because there were no better options on the table.

The job is only getting harder in a dwindling market.

 

[SubbiesSoftie]

Understrengthed 2’s on just not allowed to drop 10 of their first graders this week?

Crazy people’s views on this ‘experiment’ when these games are all close and competitive.

Epping 2nd Grade is full of players who played in their first grade side last year, should they be allowed to play? Seems odd that Epping gets to play their strongest available side but other teams don't.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

Will get in early this week again...

Div 3 Round 9 Predictions:

LCOI (8) at Merrylands (1): Top of the table vs bottom of the table at Top of the table's home ground... Oh boy, this one could get very ugly, very fast. Merrylands seem to have an endless crop of very big, very fast, very hard running players to throw at you for 80 minutes and grind you down to dust, the only question here is the margin of victory.. whatever Sportsbet gives you, take the overs. Merrylands by 40.

Sydney Harbour (3) at Hawkesbury Valley (6): This one was played at Valley in round 1 due to Wet Weather, not sure if we'll see it come back to Eastern Sydney despite it being billed as a Valley home game? In any case, Valley is going to need some upset wins and they're going to need them soon if they're a chance to stay in the hunt for finals footy. Harbour hasn't played since June 1st and they were hardly convincing against Old Barker, whilst Valley looked competitive at Knox in the first half before letting it slip away. Tough one to call, but I think I'll take Harbour on 3 weeks rest and recovery. Harbour by 10.

Sydney Irish (2) at Old Barker (7): Irish, fresh off their first loss of the season, will be looking to bounce back against Old Barker, fresh off their first win of the season. Can BOBs build some momentum off their win and starting stringing some results together? I suspect not, Irish's formula for success in playing a very Northern Hemisphere brand of footy will prove too clinical, even away at Turramurra. Irish by 13.

Knox (5) at Sydney Harlequins (4): Game of the round this week. Both teams sit on 18 competition points, though the Quinns have a game in hand. If Knox cant get it done at Waterloo they'll have to produce some upsets down the back end of the season, so everything to play for for both teams. Knox got it done against them at Waterloo last year but went down in the minor semi, so there's some history here. I think if Knox can keep their heads, they're a chance. I'll take them purely to keep the competition interesting down the stretch. Knox by 3.

Yours in not having several ex internationals in your div 3 squad,
PFE

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Epping 2nd Grade is full of players who played in their first grade side last year, should they be allowed to play? Seems odd that Epping gets to play their strongest available side but other teams don't.

Full…

4 players on Saturday started that played 1’s last year, two of which can’t commit each week.

Most played 3rd grade last year.

 

[Heavyd]

Hills have forfeited 4ths at home to UNSW.

 

[TheBigArvo]

Full…

4 players on Saturday started that played 1’s last year, two of which can’t commit each week.

Most played 3rd grade last year.

Can we talk about anything other than Epping or what other Div 2 club has the numbers. We can’t decide wether these clubs are not competitive enough or too competitive. Eppings won 3 games and are at the bottom of the table. It’s time to move on. Pats will still finish first.
No wonder Rugby is dieing if all we do is but h about things out of our control.
Time to move on and pick some other hill to die on

 

[footy_footy]

Some cracking games in Div 1 this week - hard to pick a match of the round!

Forest v Lindfield - both clubs having a crack but won't be playing finals in Kentwell. Forest's only win was against Lindfield but the Old Soldier have had a few recent scalps. Tipping Lindfield to return the favour this week.

Waverley v Mosman - 4 v 5 with possible finals ramifications. Was one point in the first time round and I think it will be tight again. Waverley to sneak home with the home ground advantage.

Hunters Hill v Blue Mountains - all good things must come to an end and I'm tipping Hunters Hill to end the streak at Boronia in a belter. Blue Mountains shot out of a cannon whilst Hunters have been building nicely. Possible GF preview. Hunters Hill by 3.

Colleagues v Drummoyne - Colleagues have been the disappointment of Season 2024 and seem to be coming out the other end of a peak period in recent years. They're still competitive but Drummoyne to have too much class against a lacklustre Blue Giant outfit.

Div 2

Hills v UNSW - Hills seem to be in all sorts with no Colts (all season) and forfeiting 4s on a Thursday for a home game! May need some time in a lower division to refresh as it seems an ageing roster has past its peak. Tipping UNSW to register their first win for the year and get some revenge for the miraculous round 1 match that they blew.

St Pat's v Petersham - match of the round at Hudson Park. Petersham have struggled in 1s this year and need this win to stay in the hunt. St Pat's coming of the long weekend and bye so should be refreshed. Tipping a close one, Pats by 2.

Newport v Beecroft - this is a good Newport side and they will be very hard to beat. Beecroft 1s are a quality side and a smokey for 4th spot. Will be closer than the ladder suggests but Breakers to keep the streak alive with a 5 point win.

Epping 1 v Briars 2 - a rejuvenated Epping side take on the cellar dwellers. Epping had some quality off the bench last week and if they can keep that team they'll be in the hunt for the Stockdale, much to everyone's displeasure. Epping by a lot.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

One wrinkle worth calling out that sucks about the current Div 3 colts setup.. clubs who have a young playing base rely on strong colt numbers to fill out back end grade numbers and also bench for both 1s and 2s. Those clubs are without those colts/reserves/players when they play away games against clubs without colts teams or affiliated colts teams. As an example, despite Lane Cove Old Ignations struggles in the grades this year, their colts are sitting in second place with 6 wins from 8 games. The grade boys are off to Holroyd to play Merrylands this week while the Colts play Chatswood at Beauchamp.

No easy fix here as its not fair to make the non affiliated Colts teams travel each week but I'm sure its a wrinkle that LCOI, Knox, Harbour (to a lesser, weirder extent) and Valley have grown to hate. Can see it reaching a tipping point where we don't have Colts in div 3 going forward unfortunately.

 

[Pfitzy]

No easy fix here as its not fair to make the non affiliated Colts teams travel each week but I'm sure its a wrinkle that LCOI, Knox, Harbour (to a lesser, weirder extent) and Valley have grown to hate. Can see it reaching a tipping point where we don't have Colts in div 3 going forward unfortunately.

It was always going to have the potential for issues. I don't think it has been done before in this manner. The draw was made as sympathetic as possible but hard to make it work 100% given the geographic distribution of clubs.

The alternative was to have a very small Radford Cup, and a Div 3 Colts comp that played every so often i.e. when coming up against other sides from that Division with Colts. Also not ideal.

In future... well I don't have a crystal ball but it seems the ongoing disconnect between juniors, schools, and seniors will continue to be an issue with retention. The behaviour of certain Premier clubs is going to be a factor as well, along with the notion that 4 Grades + 3 Colts is sustainable with SRU.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

It was always going to have the potential for issues. I don't think it has been done before in this manner. The draw was made as sympathetic as possible but hard to make it work 100% given the geographic distribution of clubs.

The alternative was to have a very small Radford Cup, and a Div 3 Colts comp that played every so often i.e. when coming up against other sides from that Division with Colts. Also not ideal.

In future... well I don't have a crystal ball but it seems the ongoing disconnect between juniors, schools, and seniors will continue to be an issue with retention. The behaviour of certain Premier clubs is going to be a factor as well, along with the notion that 4 Grades + 3 Colts is sustainable with SRU.

Yeah neither of those sound ideal either. The disconnect between schools and seniors is definitely something I've noticed this year - concerning as far as the future is concerned, no colts for Old Barker was a real surprise.

 

[Pfitzy]

no colts for Old Barker

No Country For Old Men - sorry that just popped into my head

Anyway, it is hardly a surprise when the new kid on the block - AFL - is throwing around enough money to get rugby schools interested in that code. I was scrolling Facebook one day and a Barker College "Suggested post" came up promoting two of their girls AFL teams doing quite well at some tournament. Sign of the times, and the difference between a professionally run sport with a lot of money* and one that is still using the same methods as last century.

*Fully acknowledge a large portion of this money comes from registered clubs i.e. pokies. I am uncomfortable with that way of funding the game.

From another competitor we see the size of it:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1803337272668156297

 

[Pfitzy]

Anyway, let's have some Div 4 predictions:

Redfield v Western Raptors - home side forfeited 2nd Grade. This fixture is more local to Raptors than a few of the Redfield guys who live away from Dural these days. Raptors to maintain their place clear in 2nd spot on the McLean Cup.

Chatswood v Hornsby - it would take a foolish man to bet against Hornsby going the distance undefeated this year. Chatswood have only played 5 games this year due to weather, and will be rusty even at Beauchamp.

Renegades v Kings - only KOBs third away game this year in among weather interruptions, and being a charity day at the Field Of Dreams we'll be there in numbers, even if we're missing some quality. We edged them out in the wet and will want to be more competent in the dry.

Wakehurst v Canterbury - I see Wakehurst have forfeited Colts v Knox, so this might help bolster their numbers, especially at home.

 

[parkfootyenthusiast2]

No Country For Old Men - sorry that just popped into my head

Anyway, it is hardly a surprise when the new kid on the block - AFL - is throwing around enough money to get rugby schools interested in that code. I was scrolling Facebook one day and a Barker College "Suggested post" came up promoting two of their girls AFL teams doing quite well at some tournament. Sign of the times, and the difference between a professionally run sport with a lot of money* and one that is still using the same methods as last century.

*Fully acknowledge a large portion of this money comes from registered clubs i.e. pokies. I am uncomfortable with that way of funding the game.

From another competitor we see the size of it:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1803337272668156297

Yep, I know many CAS/GPS schools have gone from as many as 9 opens rugby teams to as a few as 4-5 in recent years, with that gap going over to football / AFL despite a growing student population. Knowledge around concussions hurting rugby against football, a changing student demographic to more boarders/international kids also a contributing factor in the new deficit.

Maybe Rugby AU will put its head out for once and realise that the talent outside of the inner suburbs of Sydney is what is going to save the sinking ship, not an increased focus on private schools.

That sweet spot of 3rd to 5th graders with a sprinkling of 1s and 2s that the school tied clubs used to get is drying up, and they're seemingly left with whatever doesn't go to the Shute clubs, which isn't an awful lot. Would explain why we've seen the progressive decline of formerly decent and strong Division 1 clubs like Knox, Barker, Old Ignations etc. Kings Old Boys, whilst never a powerhorse, also in a similar predicament. Waverley managed to stave it off by becoming a premier destination for British expats. Hunters Hill seems to be going alright with what they're getting I assume from Joeys? Same goes for St Pats.