Super Rugby AU Round 6 - Waratahs vs Reds @ SCG, Saturday 8 August 2020

[Bobby Sands]

I don’t think you need to worry about the reds being disheartened, but it was good to see you get your first win.

Let’s see how good everyone is next week and try go again.

 

[qwerty51]

Wasn't the first win..

 

[Adam84]

Yeah, where to start; line out first, then a new Reds recruitment team. There is too much pressure on Wright and JOC (James O'Connor). Any news on new signings?

disagree with this sentiment, reds have a good core of solid players that they simply need to retain and develop further. I think people can get too caught up in the moment and make comments like this, whereas I think a loss like this will serve all those players well in the long term.

its not the loss that counts, its how you pick yourself up and react to failure which defines you. Every loss is an important cog in the learning curve IMO

 

[dillyboy]

I think they thought it was a no contact training run

Yeah I said during the game the Reds backs we're taking this whole social distancing thing too far....

 

[Cancelled Account]

disagree with this sentiment, reds have a good core of solid players that they simply need to retain and develop further. I think people can get too caught up in the moment and make comments like this, whereas I think a loss like this will serve all those players well in the long term.

its not the loss that counts, its how you pick yourself up and react to failure which defines you. Every loss is an important cog in the learning curve IMO

It seems your view on losses has rubbed off on the Reds since 2011. Coach says after another loss “No biggy on another loss team. This is what defines us. Let’s remember everyone’s a winner here”. What a bloody ridiculous comment. This is Super Rugby not Under 7’s.

 

[rugboy]

I honestly think the game the previous week took. It out of both teams. Neither the Reds or Brums had any intensity about them, both came up shirt in defence and their basic skills were well below usual. Surely can’t be a coincidence. Great fir the competition as now it really opens it back up.

 

[Dan54]

I honestly think the game the previous week took. It out of both teams. Neither the Reds or Brums had any intensity about them, both came up shirt in defence and their basic skills were well below usual. Surely can’t be a coincidence. Great fir the competition as now it really opens it back up.

There is a lot in that rugboy, not taking anything away from the Tahs, but I also wondered about where the Reds heads were in first half, and wondered if they got the build up right in the fly in fly out match day thing. Was bloody good game anyway, thoroughly enjoyed it!

 

[wamberal]

Stunningly bad performance by the Reds. Not sure if this possibility has been mentioned before, but the sudden death of Jordan Petaia's father might have thrown them all off balance.

 

[dru]

It seems your view on losses has rubbed off on the Reds since 2011. Coach says after another loss “No biggy on another loss team. This is what defines us. Let’s remember everyone’s a winner here”. What a bloody ridiculous comment. This is Super Rugby not Under 7’s.

Yes, this is an obvious (and accurate) criticism. Reds are maturing but they are yet to come close to a winning habit. Thorn really does need to move from development phase to a threatening team winning with consistency.

That said we have seen some very good development through Thorn's rotation policy and introduction of the youngsters from the bench. There was little to gain by playing out the 80 with experience but an opportunity was there to get some game time for the bench. So he took that option.

Nongor started by defending strongly with our backs to the wall on the line. Looked good. His first scrum he went right through his opposition. Then the front row lost out to kidology in the scrum. Unable to balance being a coiled spring with patience as Tahs feed came on the third "SQUEEZE". Tupou turned that situation over on his return. Hopefully Zane will work through the emotion. HE took one for the front row.

Zander has done well from the system and also was brought into the 23 earlier than we thought ideal but it has been managed well. In fact there are plenty of examples, sadly some no longer with us.

On the whole I think the list management has been fine. Thorn would not have had the raw talent to develop without a reasonable list. The one obvious blight is the Piccone relationship and to be sure, it needs resolving.

 

[drewprint]

Stunningly bad performance by the Reds. Not sure if this possibility has been mentioned before, but the sudden death of Jordan Petaia's father might have thrown them all off balance.

Maybe. But the Tahs were switched on and fired up from the word go as well. The perfect storm for a belting. Full credit to them - we got pasted fair and square!

 

[fatprop]

Just another game that reminds us that professional sport often comes down to what is happening between the ears and turning up ready to play, week in week out

Tahs didn't in their last game, ponies and reds this week

How they all preform next week is the key issue

 

[Up the Guts]

Maybe. But the Tahs were switched on and fired up from the word go as well. The perfect storm for a belting. Full credit to them - we got pasted fair and square!

Yep, looking at the defensive stats the Reds tackle % was only 1% lower than the ‘Canes and 6% higher than the Chiefs last night. There just wasn’t much they could do with some of the passes that were sticking. The first try setup by Ramm with the chip and chase was unstoppable.

 

[Rebels3]

It’s just one of those weeks, everything from the bounce of the ball etc. fell for the Tahs, and everything didn’t for the Reds. Will be simply the case of move onto next week, which will be the game that probably defines their season. Lose that and there could be a mountain to club to reach a playoff spot.

 

[Cancelled Account]

Yes, this is an obvious (and accurate) criticism. Reds are maturing but they are yet to come close to a winning habit. Thorn really does need to move from development phase to a threatening team winning with consistency.

That said we have seen some very good development through Thorn's rotation policy and introduction of the youngsters from the bench. There was little to gain by playing out the 80 with experience but an opportunity was there to get some game time for the bench. So he took that option.

Nongor started by defending strongly with our backs to the wall on the line. Looked good. His first scrum he went right through his opposition. Then the front row lost out to kidology in the scrum. Unable to balance being a coiled spring with patience as Tahs feed came on the third "SQUEEZE". Tupou turned that situation over on his return. Hopefully Zane will work through the emotion. HE took one for the front row.

Zander has done well from the system and also was brought into the 23 earlier than we thought ideal but it has been managed well. In fact there are plenty of examples, sadly some no longer with us.

On the whole I think the list management has been fine. Thorn would not have had the raw talent to develop without a reasonable list. The one obvious blight is the Piccone relationship and to be sure, it needs resolving.

Let’s look at the countries who are succeeding in performance. I can’t see Scott Robertson taking a kid from Colts this week and playing him in Super Rugby 2 weeks later. Nongorr, Zander and Flook need to do their time in Premier grade. There’s a balance of experience, consistency, skill and confidence that these kids need. Throwing them in and seeing who comes out the other side is poor and inexperienced coaching. None of them are ready.
The list manager needs to look out side their new found box or we are going to lose the valuable players.

 

[dru]

Let’s look at the countries who are succeeding in performance. I can’t see Scott Robertson taking a kid from Colts this week and playing him in Super Rugby 2 weeks later. Nongorr, Zander and Flook need to do their time in Premier grade. There’s a balance of experience, consistency, skill and confidence that these kids need. Throwing them in and seeing who comes out the other side is poor and inexperienced coaching. None of them are ready.
The list manager needs to look out side their new found box or we are going to lose the valuable players.

YEs, sort of. Firstly Thorn has done fine bringing in the kids. Secondly the issue with using QPR for game time seems to have challenges (dont know what they are) in normal situations, but in the world of COVID there is a "bubble".

I hope the list manager is doing exactly what you are saying, not sure we wouod know one way or another.

I think Zander has done fine with Thorn's rotation. HE wouldnt be there however if the "list" we had had not been impacted by COVID (and the wage negotiations).

There can certainly be improvements with game time, QPR and the broader squad. I wonder how much of that is structural and how much is management?

 

[TSR]

Let’s look at the countries who are succeeding in performance. I can’t see Scott Robertson taking a kid from Colts this week and playing him in Super Rugby 2 weeks later. Nongorr, Zander and Flook need to do their time in Premier grade. There’s a balance of experience, consistency, skill and confidence that these kids need. Throwing them in and seeing who comes out the other side is poor and inexperienced coaching. None of them are ready.
The list manager needs to look out side their new found box or we are going to lose the valuable players.

That’s a fair observation on Scott Robertson RR - but Thorn himself has been open about the fact that the Crusaders have excellent pathways/development systems which he wants us to eventually replicate but which we are still a long way from. The Crusaders have built this over 20-30 years, we essentially started 4 yrs ago. And they are now talking about taking away the NRC which is the closest thing we have to the Mitre 10 Cup/NPC which allows us to build that core group of developing talent.

Thorn has a clear willingness to go with youth were there is no clear mature option available but he has also bought guys like JOC (James O'Connor) & Hegarty back into the mix and has given some guys out if club rugby chances.

From what I understand Thorn is privately quite candid that his need to rely on youngsters is not ideal, but the work just hasn’t been put into the older club rugby players to be super rugby ready.

 

[dru]

That’s a fair observation on Scott Robertson RR - but Thorn himself has been open about the fact that the Crusaders have excellent pathways/development systems which he wants us to eventually replicate but which we are still a long way from. The Crusaders have built this over 20-30 years, we essentially started 4 yrs ago. And they are now talking about taking away the NRC which is the closest thing we have to the Mitre 10 Cup/NPC which allows us to build that core group of developing talent.

Thorn has a clear willingness to go with youth were there is no clear mature option available but he has also bought guys like JOC (James O'Connor) & Hegarty back into the mix and has given some guys out if club rugby chances.

From what I understand Thorn is privately quite candid that his need to rely on youngsters is not ideal, but the work just hasn’t been put into the older club rugby players to be super rugby ready.

So while it doesnt prove that the list management is not an issue, focus is needed on developing those pathways.

However we see it, the relationship with Piccone is a major spanner in the works.

 

[Cancelled Account]

That’s a fair observation on Scott Robertson RR - but Thorn himself has been open about the fact that the Crusaders have excellent pathways/development systems which he wants us to eventually replicate but which we are still a long way from. The Crusaders have built this over 20-30 years, we essentially started 4 yrs ago. And they are now talking about taking away the NRC which is the closest thing we have to the Mitre 10 Cup/NPC which allows us to build that core group of developing talent.

Thorn has a clear willingness to go with youth were there is no clear mature option available but he has also bought guys like JOC (James O'Connor) & Hegarty back into the mix and has given some guys out if club rugby chances.

From what I understand Thorn is privately quite candid that his need to rely on youngsters is not ideal, but the work just hasn’t been put into the older club rugby players to be super rugby ready.

I think we have all been patient for the 4 years and are immune to all the excuses. We hear about culture and the QLD pathway, but at the same time we have lost Kerevi, Rodda, Hockings, Lucas and Gordon. This whole Piccone thing could have been controlled but instead we go the battle with the most lucrative agent manager in Australia. We lose 2 wallabies and 3 junior wallabies in less than a year because Sam Cordingley doesn’t like the contract dollars that Piccone demands for elite players. This dispute needs to be resolved quickly because there are players like Chris Feaui-Sautia that we need to retain. You can’t run a successful business with amateur recruitment and a high turnover of elite players. We’ll be left with no wallabies in the next few years.

 

[TSR]

Yeah - that’s fair. I would say though that given Qld & NSW are by far the biggest nursery’s and that the money available to Australian rugby players is relatively small by comparison to our competition, we aren’t going to stop losing players we want to keep any time soon.

 

[Silverado]

I don’t think you need to worry about the reds being disheartened, but it was good to see you get your first win.

Let’s see how good everyone is next week and try go again.

2nd win. They're now ahead of the Reds on the ladder