Super Rugby Au Rnd 3 Waratahs vs Force 5th March, Sydney

[Derpus]

Not a bad response from a Centre who just earned a t/over at a critical stage in the match - and from a player who some rugby fans think is only with the WF for the $$s.

He's a professional rugby player who could make more in Japan but he's in Perth so his family can be together and he can make a difference. Just ask all of the Sea of Blue who met Richard Kahui at the recent Fan Day.

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Both he and Kearney both legitimately seemed more pumped than the rest of the team. Was interesting to see. I guess successful pros just have that drive.

 

[Brumby Runner]

There just isn't though.

Thinking that another rugby team based in Western Sydney would get a large amount of extra support is a furphy.

Parramatta, Penrith and even West Harbour aren't close to being the most supported Shute Shield clubs. Grassroots participation in terms of number of clubs at each age/level isn't highest there either.

No chance BH that a significant number of potential fans in the western region of Sydney might support a Super Rugby side while having little connection to the local SS sides? I suspect there are many like me in Canberra who have followed the Brumbies since inception but who have no club connection in the JID competition.

 

[Forcefield]

A lot of Force fans I know have no connection to the local competition. For most it is because they didn't grow up in Perth and never had a connection. We are a multicultural country. I don't see why NSW/Sydney couldn't be any different.

Adding to that, I have no idea exactly what goes on in Sydney, but if I was Penrith, Parramatta, et al., I'd be pretty disenfranchised by clubs like Sydney Uni appearing to poach talent. As an outsider, the deck looks stacked against the West (but, you know, that could be my default "the west is always hard done by")

 

[I like to watch]

Well done Force. Good comeback after a poor start and solid play to hold on with 14 men.
Happy with most of the Tah's effort and execution, but we did have a long time against a 14 man team and couldn't capitalise.
Impressed with Berry's consistent work in trying to keep interruptions to a minimum, especially sending off the water boys.
Laughed at post match comment - "he threw a punch because his new baby is giving him sleepless nights".

How can you be happy with that?
they got off to a flier, opposition were a man down for the championship minutes, and they couldn’t lock it down.

in what scenario can they win a game in this comp?
get a 20min head start?

 

[Braveheart81]

No chance BH that a significant number of potential fans in the western region of Sydney might support a Super Rugby side while having little connection to the local SS sides? I suspect there are many like me in Canberra who have followed the Brumbies since inception but who have no club connection in the JID competition.

A lot of Force fans I know have no connection to the local competition. For most it is because they didn't grow up in Perth and never had a connection. We are a multicultural country. I don't see why NSW/Sydney couldn't be any different.

Both of you state you have been loyal fans of the Brumbies and Force yet you're then applying the same logic to suggest that a new Western Sydney team would attract an unknown set of fans that don't support the Waratahs and also don't support club rugby.

It seems like an incredible gamble to start a new professional team on the basis that there might be fans out there to support them.

Basing a team's potential support on the fact that people out west don't like the Waratahs but then also don't currently follow other rugby seems like a huge leap to make.

 

[wamberal]

Sydney is battling to support one Super Rugby franchise (and, arguably, losing the battle), and the answer is to start up another one?

Spare me.

 

[Forcefield]

I'm not exactly suggesting you do, just that I think you'd find a heck of a lot more support for it than you think if you only base it off what happens with the clubs.

I don't think GRR will be resurrected, but if it did, it would be great to test the waters there.

 

[formerflanker]

How can you be happy with that?

The hint was where I said "happy with MOST etc etc" and "BUT ..... couldn't capitalise".
I'm still keen to support a team whose selections, tactics, and results are poor: I do expect effort, fronting up, body on the line, i.e. really trying. That seems to be the 'Tahs at the moment.

 

[Kevin77]

I think if a Western Sydney club had been introduced to the competition instead of the Western Force circa 10 years ago- rugby would be in a stronger place than it is now (even if it had been a half-hearted commitment). Nice hypothetical though

Not instead of the Force

 

[Brumby Runner]

Both of you state you have been loyal fans of the Brumbies and Force yet you're then applying the same logic to suggest that a new Western Sydney team would attract an unknown set of fans that don't support the Waratahs and also don't support club rugby.

It seems like an incredible gamble to start a new professional team on the basis that there might be fans out there to support them.

Basing a team's potential support on the fact that people out west don't like the Waratahs but then also don't currently follow other rugby seems like a huge leap to make.

It would certainly be a gamble, but by your attitude it will never be tested. Western Sydney apparently in majority won't support the Tahs but some do support the western based SS sides. Are the 2 million odd residents of the west forever to be denied an opportunity to participate in the premier rugby comp in the country because they ignore the priveleged who live East or North.

I'm sure it would be a difficult situation but perhaps a Fiji Drua style team supplemented by locally based players, based out of Parramatta Stadium would have a chance of drawing support that would grow over time. Potentially to outperform the Tahs in crowd pulling appeal down the track.

Somethi g needs to change in Sydney imo, but if you never try, you never know.

 

[Braveheart81]

It would certainly be a gamble, but by your attitude it will never be tested. Western Sydney apparently in majority won't support the Tahs but some do support the western based SS sides. Are the 2 million odd residents of the west forever to be denied an opportunity to participate in the premier rugby comp in the country because they ignore the priveleged who live East or North.

I'm sure it would be a difficult situation but perhaps a Fiji Drua style team supplemented by locally based players, based out of Parramatta Stadium would have a chance of drawing support that would grow over time. Potentially to outperform the Tahs in crowd pulling appeal down the track.

Somethi g needs to change in Sydney imo, but if you never try, you never know.

I agree. It is completely selfish that someone isn't willing to put up $10+ million to give it a crack for a season or two and see how much interest there is.

Whose money are you spending?

By your own admission it would be a gamble, you have no idea whether it would work or not but somehow it's my bad attitude that will see it not being tested.

Australian rugby as a whole lacks the money to retain the players in Australia that we want but we should spread the available funds even further to bring the average salary per player down?

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Why would a NSWelshman, regardless of where he/she/they lives in the state not support NSW? Excluding of course those within the old Southern Inland and Far South Coast Rugby Unions.

 

[John S]

Why would a NSWelshman, regardless of where he/she/they lives in the state not support NSW? Excluding of course those within the old Southern Inland and Far South Coast Rugby Unions.

Even in the Shoalhaven (part of the Illawarra area comp) there's more support for the Brumbies than the Tahs. But I think that's more due to historical ties with some players (Andrew Walker) coming from Shoalies and playing for the Brumbies etc. Interesting that when Will Miller played for the Tahs support didn't switch, so there's probably something else in it.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Even in the Shoalhaven (part of the Illawarra area comp) there's more support for the Brumbies than the Tahs. But I think that's more due to historical ties with some players (Andrew Walker) coming from Shoalies and playing for the Brumbies etc. Interesting that when Will Miller played for the Tahs support didn't switch, so there's probably something else in it.

Very interesting. Considering most of the ACT players come from NSW I suppose it's not too surprising, but still it doesn't seem like cricket.

 

[eastman]

I agree. It is completely selfish that someone isn't willing to put up $10+ million to give it a crack for a season or two and see how much interest there is.

Whose money are you spending?

By your own admission it would be a gamble, you have no idea whether it would work or not but somehow it's my bad attitude that will see it not being tested.

Australian rugby as a whole lacks the money to retain the players in Australia that we want but we should spread the available funds even further to bring the average salary per player down?

As has been raised previously, rugby has probably missed the opportunity for a dedicated Western Sydney franchise (or there will be a 4- 5 year wait at best until the financial position has strengthened).

The decisions to expand into fringe rugby areas probably made sense to the Eastern/ Northern Suburbs- based power brokers at the time but it seems that they overlooked some low hanging fruit in Western Sydney; an existing talent pool to tap into, huge population growth and a simple marketing narrative (e.g. east vs west).

There was obviously corporate and broadcasting (in Perth at least) potential in Perth/ Melbourne, however the importance of an existing rugby-playing support base wasn't weighed heavily enough in the sustainability metrics.

 

[wamberal]

Very interesting. Considering most of the ACT players come from NSW I suppose it's not too surprising, but still it doesn't seem like cricket.

It is possibly a result of the franchise's success. Let's face it, if I had lived half way or so between Sydney and Canberra, I would quite possibly have been more inclined to follow them, they played some very exciting and innovative rugby.

 

[eastman]

Australian rugby as a whole lacks the money to retain the players in Australia that we want but we should spread the available funds even further to bring the average salary per player down?

Real leadership would merge the Brumbies and Rebels and establish a Western Sydney team.

 

[Merrow]

Real leadership would merge the Brumbies and Rebels and establish a Western Sydney team.

That would be a firm no.

 

[Rob42]

Why would a NSWelshman, regardless of where he/she/they lives in the state not support NSW? Excluding of course those within the old Southern Inland and Far South Coast Rugby Unions.

Probably because plenty of NSW "rugby people" are much more closely aligned to their club or school team than the Tahs. Plenty of older Shute Shield club fans feel like Super Rugby diminished the quality of their comp, so they're still quite happy to give the Tahs the cold shoulder. Churlish at this point, but that's part of it.

 

[Pfitzy]

As someone who grew up in country NSW with zero awareness of the game, and has lived in Western Sydney for the last 20 years AND been involved with a rugby club (NOT a Premier club) directly for most of that time: all you've got is cross-town rivalry.

A Western Sydney team might prick some interest in terms of giving it to the Tahs, but unless a pile of money drops out of the sky, it isn't going to happen.

There are clubs out here that are doing bloody well but after a Saturday afternoon playing a grade or three somewhere, and going back to their own pub or the opposition's, you're not getting them to Bankwest for a rugby game with overpriced food and bev.

Once they've blown their brownie points with the spouse on saturday, or fronting up for kids or womens rugby the next morning, they're not going to a Sunday afternoon game either.

Most of the guys at my club would rather go watch the NRL than the Waratahs.