Super Rugby 2022

[Dan54]

But in fairness RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) would have been in the top bracket of paid NRL players, This is a start up salary, but what is his potential pay packet if he makes the All Blacks.

Exactly hoggy, he would that is what his Blues contract is, so if he makes ABs he will make a fair bit more, and I think his best way of topping up will be selling image. Basically he will do alright if he pretty successful. But I guessing he will add about 200k if he just nakes squad without being a star.

Just out of interest NZ super players are getting 15% of their wages held back this and next year too apparently

 

[Dan54]

So he is not getting any AB top up money. Vunivalu got RA top up money and isn’t he on close to 1m

Pretty sure he doesn't get top up money until he actually proves he good enough to be AB. Don't RA would be same.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Pretty sure he doesn't get top up money until he actually proves he good enough to be AB. Surely RA would be same.

No lot of the time when they make a play for big name league players they come with RA top up money as was the case for MK and pretty sure for Vunivalu.

 

[Dan54]

No lot of the time when they make a play for big name league players they come with RA top up money as was the case for MK and pretty sure for Vunivalu.

Ok maybe we have to take into account RA wants them as a tool to promote game with general public so different reasons maybe. Also think RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) made the approach.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Ok maybe we have to take into account RA wants them as a tool to promote game with general public so different reasons maybe. Also think RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) made the approach.

Would have thought would have still got AB top up money but then again not same dynamics perhaps they face cf RA where rugby the poorer cousin to league.

 

[Dan54]

Would have thought would have still got AB top up money but then again not same dynamics perhaps they face cf RA where rugby the poorer cousin to league.

Yep that's what I meant. RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) was bought across by Blues where RA are usually involved with getting players to swap. Also RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) played in Blues age grade team etc with a few of the players so was probably keen to give it a go.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yep that's what I meant. RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) was bought across by Blues where RA are usually involved with getting players to swap. Also RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) played in Blues age grade team etc with a few of the players so was probably keen to give it a go.

HIs agent should have got him AB top up money - surely had the pedigree to justify it but then again RA need of talent more then ABs I guess.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

That is why it is so frustrating as to compete for talent given what nrl pays its top stars we need to grow our game in the region…and yeh that means NZRU and RA working together as oz has been commercial market ‘opportunity’ for growth if can get the product right. The fact RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) can only get half of what paid playing in super rugby vs what paid in league is frustrating. But credit I suppose is nz rugby does not lose that many players to rugby…but can we expect that to stay the same.

And you don't think NZR already know this? Or that Australia has been the SANZAAR market with the potential to generate significant $ for a long time? Either they are totally incompetent or of course they know this. But in looking at developing the Australian market meaning looking to tailor certain element to suit that would potentially put us in the position of financial strength. Which is something through decades of action neither SA or NZ wanted and something NZ still doesn't want.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

And you don't think NZR already know this? Or that Australia has been the SANZAAR market with the potential to generate significant $ for a long time? Either they are totally incompetent or of course they know this. But in looking at developing the Australian market meaning looking to tailor certain element to suit that would potentially put us in the position of financial strength. Which is something through decades of action neither SA or NZ wanted and something NZ still doesn't want.

Makes no sense to me though WCR if that is the thinking as bigger market, better product (with better competition against AB teams) and more money (better broadcast deal). As NZ can't discount the threat of league expansion....irrespective if currently best in the world and number 1 sport in the country - just ask West Indian about that from a cricket context.

I don't really hazzard to guess NZ's thinking except possibly about their belief this would damage the ABs (which not convinced at all and if anything the contrary)....

 

[Dan54]

Would have thought would have still got AB top up money but then again not same dynamics perhaps they face cf RA where rugby the poorer cousin to league.

Pretty sure NZR have a policy you got to prove you good enough to get a top up, mind you as I said it's probably not seen as promoting the game hugely to have them swap, and would probably have reverse effect if public thought they were getting paid NZR top up money just to come, and young up and comers from NZ weren't. I won't comment on fairness of RA doing it.

And you don't think NZR already know this? Or that Australia has been the SANZAAR market with the potential to generate significant $ for a long time? Either they are totally incompetent or of course they know this. But in looking at developing the Australian market meaning looking to tailor certain element to suit that would potentially put us in the position of financial strength. Which is something through decades of action neither SA or NZ wanted and something NZ still doesn't want.

Well I not sure what SANZAAR is supposed to do about league players, surely you not really suggesting that NZR etc should help pay for leaguies to swap to RA.
I sure you can't mean that as that is playing the poor us we have it hard card away above and beyond any seriousness. I prefer what NZR has been doing (and I sure everyone wants them to do more), by getting behind Fiji, Tonga and Samoa to get them in Super so there is another reason for kids with that ethnicty to stay and play union. I don't belive helping a leaguie or 2 swap to union will have much difference in long run.
And I sure NZR doesn't discount the dangers of league expansion, it is why is spends so much on the community game in NZ, you know by not getting kids to help pay ABs wages etc?

 

[Dan54]

Just reading a thing by Blues' coach Leon MacDonald talking about how it harder to recruit players with MP (Moana Pasifika) (and MLR in USA) competing for talent etc.
Also interesting when he talking about NPC (and why I think RA badly needs NRC). He talking about Counties , North Harbour and Auckland not being able to play because of coved (where most of his players are from)

'Players from those three teams haven’t played since August, and those who are signed to Super Rugby Pacific teams aren’t likely to until early February when pre-season fixtures get underway.

That six-month layoff will undoubtedly be detrimental to the development of youngsters and rookies, of whom the Blues have plenty.

One of those is Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens, the 20-year-old wing who MacDonald was impressed by after he made his sole Super Rugby appearance in his debut campaign for the Blues earlier this year.

“It is what it is. We’ve just got to make sure we prepare them as best as we possibly can. We missed an opportunity to develop our players,” MacDonald said of the axing of Auckland, North Harbour and Counties Manukau from this year’s NPC.

“You look at a young Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens who had a year with us, trained brilliantly. From the start of the year to the end, you could see his game growing and growing.

“He had one opportunity, played really well for us, and then he went back to Taranaki this year and played brilliantly.

“That was an ability for him to just keep stacking seasons on top of each other to develop his game, whereas a lot of our Auckland boys are exactly the same as him but left our Super season and hit a brick wall, really, and not being able to grow their game.”

I still believe the missing link in Aus rugby, I know the money problems etc, but it needs to be sorted asap I believe.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Pretty sure NZR have a policy you got to prove you good enough to get a top up, mind you as I said it's probably not seen as promoting the game hugely to have them swap, and would probably have reverse effect if public thought they were getting paid NZR top up money just to come, and young up and comers from NZ weren't. I won't comment on fairness of RA doing it.

Well I not sure what SANZAAR is supposed to do about league players, surely you not really suggesting that NZR etc should help pay for leaguies to swap to RA.
I sure you can't mean that as that is playing the poor us we have it hard card away above and beyond any seriousness. I prefer what NZR has been doing (and I sure everyone wants them to do more), by getting behind Fiji, Tonga and Samoa to get them in Super so there is another reason for kids with that ethnicty to stay and play union. I don't belive helping a leaguie or 2 swap to union will have much difference in long run.
And I sure NZR doesn't discount the dangers of league expansion, it is why is spends so much on the community game in NZ, you know by not getting kids to help pay ABs wages etc?

Dan I think WCR was just expressing the frustration that we don't seem to have relevant parties working to create the best super rugby product due to competing agendas.

And yes you know I feel there is an opportunity to create a better super rugby product establishing a solid footprint across Asia Pacific and supporting more evenly balanced teams across that footprint to achieve that with current teams, and indeed future expansion teams. I know in some key areas we have different views on how you might get there, and what relevant parties could do to support the required changes.

Hence, I will try and avoid debates on what changes to achieve that, who resisting changes etc as otherwise end up revisiting the 1000 pages of where to super rugby debate. To me the NZRU's and RA's know all the options and really at this point is appetite for different options, their agendas, and willingness for compromise to realise opportunities or indeed avoid keep flogging a dead horse when keep getting same answers without real change (super rugby model).

Anyhow we will see how super rugby pacific goes in 2022 (plan a or plan b) and see what transpires. Maybe it may just magically come together and be a successful competition…sorry just got distracted saying that in seeing a pig flying backwards

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Just reading a thing by Blues' coach Leon MacDonald talking about how it harder to recruit players with MP (Moana Pasifika) (and MLR in USA) competing for talent etc.
Also interesting when he talking about NPC (and why I think RA badly needs NRC). He talking about Counties , North Harbour and Auckland not being able to play because of coved (where most of his players are from)

'Players from those three teams haven’t played since August, and those who are signed to Super Rugby Pacific teams aren’t likely to until early February when pre-season fixtures get underway.

That six-month layoff will undoubtedly be detrimental to the development of youngsters and rookies, of whom the Blues have plenty.

One of those is Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens, the 20-year-old wing who MacDonald was impressed by after he made his sole Super Rugby appearance in his debut campaign for the Blues earlier this year.

“It is what it is. We’ve just got to make sure we prepare them as best as we possibly can. We missed an opportunity to develop our players,” MacDonald said of the axing of Auckland, North Harbour and Counties Manukau from this year’s NPC.

“You look at a young Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens who had a year with us, trained brilliantly. From the start of the year to the end, you could see his game growing and growing.

“He had one opportunity, played really well for us, and then he went back to Taranaki this year and played brilliantly.

“That was an ability for him to just keep stacking seasons on top of each other to develop his game, whereas a lot of our Auckland boys are exactly the same as him but left our Super season and hit a brick wall, really, and not being able to grow their game.”

I still believe the missing link in Aus rugby, I know the money problems etc, but it needs to be sorted asap I believe.

Yeh sad that NRC was a casulty from COVID....agree priority - RA just broke unfortunately and suspect waiting for PE deal to help fund it. What I did not understand was I thought with sponsorship and TV deal what foxtel paid it made it self funded....so assume a case of Stan not willing to stump cash to help fund it..sponsorship challenges etc...

 

[Adam84]

Pretty sure NZR have a policy you got to prove you good enough to get a top up, mind you as I said it's probably not seen as promoting the game hugely to have them swap, and would probably have reverse effect if public thought they were getting paid NZR top up money just to come, and young up and comers from NZ weren't.

Hence why NZRU wouldn't advertise they are getting top up, little thing called ‘commercial in confidence’ which would undermine their ability to negotiate with others.

Player market in Australia differs vastly to New Zealand, not just rugby players but across multiple codes, teams and players agents, balance of power in NZ sits with NZRU as its a comparative monopoly in a smaller market, in Australia the balance of power sits with the players agents as RA is‘t the only employer in town.

I’d be interested to see wha the player agent accreditation requirements are like across both countries.. a delisting in NZ would be a death knell for the agent, in Australia being de-listed by RA would work arguably against RA as the agent would deal exclusively with NRL teams instead.

 

[Dan54]

I think a hell of a lot of player managers are actually completely international accredited, and certainly for example Khodder Nasser has dealt with NZR, (and they actually reckon he one of best agents there is to deal with) but generally all agents are registered worldwide , as players need them to be, so they can look after players.
But NZR wouldn't be able to keep it quiet if they did top ups, I doubt whether any sports code could as they have to answer to members.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Revised draw expected to drop as soon as next week:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Based on Marinos' comments it looks like they'll play all the derbies early then the TT fixtures after the NZ border fully opens in April (hopefully).

 

[dru]

Revised draw expected to drop as soon as next week:

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Based on Marinos' comments it looks like they'll play all the derbies early then the TT fixtures after the NZ border fully opens in April (hopefully).

While I do support TT games for ANZAC day weekend, this is generally a good thing. Gives the Aus teams a chance to build in continuity and experience before facing Kiwi teams - IFF their depths stands up.

<also it is a short step to formulating a proper domestic comp as a basis for the season>

 

[Sheepie]

Plus the SuperRugbyAU competition was just fun to watch. Even as someone whose team didn't win a single match in AU nor TT.

If we can have that again in 2022 it'll be a great start to the season, even if the whole thing is technically SuperRugbyPacific.

I'm just hoping it still has a Tahs home match on 19th March. -crosses fingers-

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Plus the SuperRugbyAU competition was just fun to watch. Even as someone whose team didn't win a single match in AU nor TT.

If we can have that again in 2022 it'll be a great start to the season, even if the whole thing is technically SuperRugbyPacific.

I'm just hoping it still has a Tahs home match on 19th March. -crosses fingers-

I think super rugby au would be great and also good in counting towards super rugby pacific interested to see how that goes as different variant on last year.

 

[Dan54]

Was reading one of plans was playing the TT part first in Aus and then going to derbies etc after. Hope not myself, but will have to see. Not sure how it will work anyway as Qld prem was saying if Omicron takes off they will bang the borders shut again anyway, and WA certainly don't seem any keener than NZ on throwing open borders.