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Super Rugby 2017: matches not involving Australian teams

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Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Yep Dave, I can't find it very appealing these so called derbies if it just makes mediocre teams rattle up wins they may not really deserve. One of the reasons I don't like the conference system, at all. Still I suppose we stuck with it so I will enjoy the rugby , and do admit to really enjoying watching any 2 kiwi teams playing each other, just want to see all the teams play them.
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Anyway the other thing I will add on the game isn't A Smith getting back on top of his game, the couple of passes he threw to put the receivers in to score tries really should be shown at every training session for young 9s, a matter of picking out the RIGHT player, and the hitting him with a bang on pass!! As for when he was about to kick and stopped halfway thorugh and instead threw a pass as he saw the Stormers moving away was just my idea of what we all talk about with 'heads up rugby'.
 

Twoilms

Trevor Allan (34)
I'll go a step further than DP and suggest that the system of bulk derbies and rewarding mediocrity with home finals is part of our malaise.
Nah, in a restructured competition we would all still suck by comparison. I guess we'll have to wait until next year to know for sure though.

lou75, you must be one of a rare bunch because Australia has the lowest viewership of across the countries, which coincides nicely with the lowest number of finals appearances in recent years.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
God it's sad if that is what makes you feel good.

What on earth are SA and Aus going to do? No answer. Nothing. We cannot run with the Kiwis. And NONE of the players look like they believe they can either.

It is starting to really look dire.

I think the Lions have shown its possible and have done it in an isolated environment back in SA. They showed that were close to the Kiwi teams but it was the lack of exposure to the Kiwi's that was the undoing (and this is part of the reason why some really want to keep Super Rugby - its key for development for many countries) but showed they are close and not far behind. You see occasional glimpses of the same abilities in Aussie teams.

The key difference IMHO is the time warp BS that being preached and celebrated to players but the institutionalised rugby establishment that is institutionalised in its thinking and stuck in the amateur era on many many levels.

There was no miracle with the Lions finding the only 23 players in SA that could play like they do which is different to other SA teams (and there is a sad irony in Ackermann going O/S and proves my point). No, it what was coached and learned. We can see the spread in the younger SA franchises (not the important ones!) like the Kings are on the path the Cheetah have always had it to some degree.

Same in Australia. Apparently all of a sudden Larkham has unshackled his players. WTF? Really, just all of a sudden gone have the skill-set and can play like that? The reality is he is letting them go away from his script.

The key is in the coaching and pathways to Super Rugby. Kiwi players "learn" the game more than any other SANZAAR country atm, You can see their rugby IQ is higher which pushes the skill-set up and the innovation / game play abilities are at a higher level. It then breads competitiveness and they have coaches with some stones who will cut players and not stick with mediocrity. The player production line is always running.

SA and Australia are still all about the coaching and teaching, with little learning. Drills, set play etc etc Listen to a Larkham (and other Aussie coaches) at a post match presser and they will go on about when to take chances, choices. options etc. Kiwi coaches don't worry to much about that as they want their players to think for themselves and "learn it" and what suits their strengths and then push the opportunities, both to take them and create them.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
From what I can tell SA school rugby is expressive enough. Something happens to get conservative as they start through the academies I guess. SA as enough rugby numbers coming through to be able to cope with the chicken runners - as long as they keep the best oaches who need to be constantly bringing through the new talent. The opportunity for real coaching pathways is there. Springboks can continue to be a world power, even with the exodus to Europe, if they handle it well.

In Aus I dont think we have coaching pathways at all sorted. Nor do we have the numbers. But, believe it or not, we have more commercial opportunity than anyone else in SANZAAR. I'm not saying that opportunity has much in the way of low hanging fruit. But after coaching, our biggest problem is a distant hands off ARU and little effective joined up management to the states and the clubs.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
The stormers, great, let me guess, another one of these foreign teams that get gifted a home playoff berth even after the top 4 NZ teams spent the season annihilating their arses then Sanzar reward them by telling them “uh, great season guys, sorry no home playoff berth for you, how about you go fuck off halfway around the world to Botswana or some shit to play the same useless pricks you spent all season murdering. This time in their backyard, probably with Jaco Van Hitler as the ref and a paid-up saffa TV producer with his tongue halfway up the TMO’s arse. Good luck, wankers.”


Wow. Take a break man. It's only a game.

You're getting upset because your country's teams win every weekend and dominate. :confused:

I guess you have to get upset at something.
 
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Twoilms

Trevor Allan (34)
Wow. Take a break man. It's only a game.

You're getting upset because your country's teams win every weekend and dominate. :confused:

I guess you have to get upset at something.
It's almost ironic, they've broken the competition by being too successful and yet it's still not enough for them.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
From what I can tell SA school rugby is expressive enough. Something happens to get conservative as they start through the academies I guess. SA as enough rugby numbers coming through to be able to cope with the chicken runners - as long as they keep the best oaches who need to be constantly bringing through the new talent. The opportunity for real coaching pathways is there. Springboks can continue to be a world power, even with the exodus to Europe, if they handle it well.

In Aus I dont think we have coaching pathways at all sorted. Nor do we have the numbers. But, believe it or not, we have more commercial opportunity than anyone else in SANZAAR. I'm not saying that opportunity has much in the way of low hanging fruit. But after coaching, our biggest problem is a distant hands off ARU and little effective joined up management to the states and the clubs.


It's culture and mentality. From club level up for the most part rugby is run and coached by establishment types wherever you go.

And everyone's on a power trip. Grey heads who have done things the same for years and so have those before them. It takes an innovator like Ackerman, with the backing of a progressive thinking CEO to break through the stereotype and do something different. A rarity indeed.

Clubs, provinces, and the Bok establishments clearly have not realised their deficiencies, and don't want to. It's a deeply rooted cultural issue of old school, chest beating types and you can teach them nothing. They have all the answers and it's all about keeping their job or the prestige of sitting on another board.

The Bulls and Cheetahs have gone backwards. Their boards and management are more insular and backward in their thinking than before. The idea of leadership equates to how well you protect your turf by keeping your "boys" close at hand. Anybody with different ideas is seen as a threat. Stormers and WP? Not much better. Also bankrupt which doesn't help much.

I suspect the above description is not far off the mark here in Australia.

Just finished reading a book about the evolution of Homo Sapiens and how it has as a species outsmarted everything from the first Neanderthals it encountered. That's how it has stayed ahead.

In rugby terms, the Kiwis are a little bit like that, outsmarting us Saffa and Aussie Neanderthals while we sit and gaze in fascination at our navels, wishing we knew how to make a fire.
 

Spieber

Bob Loudon (25)
Chiefs v Sunwolves
1. 7 penalties in red zone but no cards - Houston afraid to offend his hosts?
2. Sunwolves use posts to score. I have seen Kiwis do this three times this year but Aussie guys seem to try and avoid them?
 

ACR

Desmond Connor (43)
If anything is going to kill rugby, have a look at the disallowed try to the Cheetahs in the 35th minute against the Crusaders. This prop just went beast mode, made a perfect offload for a golden try.

Absolutely disgraceful call from the video ref after that. There must be something in the water they give to SA video refs, they frequently make bonkers calls. CHANGE REQUIRED: There needs to be absolutely ZERO video ref involvement unless referred to or for serious foul play.

The Crusaders go on to score the minute bloody after too. Bollocks.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
There are less people at Sunwolves v Chiefs than at the Waratahs game.

Unsurprising and expected. NZ crowds are generally lower than both Aussie crowds and SA crowds. It relates to their lower population which also is why their venues are smaller (Eden Park only holds 50K). Hamilton only has a population of around 160K so its smaller than Canberra.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Highlights:

Family commitments meant I only got to see Clan v Stormers & had to turn down free tix to Tribe v Sunwolves (was a shit day weather-wise so not surprised the crowd was poor). Trying to not get caught up in the Crusaders hype coming from the NZ rugby media but they do look a more complete side than in recent years.

Read broke his thumb so must now be in doubt for B&IL series:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...-cheetahs-but-injury-to-read-could-be-a-worry

EDIT: BSmith in a moon boot & won't travel to SA but not thought to be too serious:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11847707
 

Ulrich

Nev Cottrell (35)
**URGENT NOTIFICATION**

The following post has been placed **ON REPORT** with an Independent Internet Citing Commission:




The list of citable violations reads as follows:

  • suspicion of siding with SANZAR and their universally-reviled sister-kissing mummy-gave-us-a-playoff-game conference system
  • talking like a chick.
  • possibly making Victor Matfield angry.
  • saying that one thing that only chicks and/or people who don’t like sport say.
  • suspected socialist leanings.
  • hint of an anti-NZ agenda.
  • telling me to “take a break” even though it's the weekend now and all I do is take a break when it’s the weekend.
NZ rugby is great.

Chill out lady.

SA is trying to learn to attack whilst abandoning traditional defensive capabilities. Aus don't know exactly how they want to play. Both nations are leaking players to Europe. SA more so than anyone else.

The replacements as mandated by govt are quick and skillful but unfortunately not as great defensively for RSA rugby.

Something we have to work through around here which we will. When we do I hope you had not counted your chicks because by then a population of 50 odd million will have joined the bandwagon. Until now you have had to deal with 4-5 million Afrikaners.
 

zer0

John Thornett (49)
Something we have to work through around here which we will. When we do I hope you had not counted your chicks because by then a population of 50 odd million will have joined the bandwagon. Until now you have had to deal with 4-5 million Afrikaners.


You'll probably need more than pure population numbers. By example, England's 53 million people and France's 66 million hasn't really helped them all that much.
 

Ulrich

Nev Cottrell (35)
You'll probably need more than pure population numbers. By example, England's 53 million people and France's 66 million hasn't really helped them all that much.
Yeah, but they have sucked from the start. We have not.
 
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