Storm in a teacup, or more serious?

[Scrubber2050]

It is substantially different. There is specific legislation which govern the operation of a trust account and controlled monies which has no relevance to the bank accounts of a corporation.

Morally it is quite similar but legally it isn't at all.

Both examples are misappropriation.

At last count that is illegal or are you saying that NFJ didn't really do anything wrong or illegal ?

 

[Scrubber2050]

It is substantially different. There is specific legislation which govern the operation of a trust account and controlled monies which has no relevance to the bank accounts of a corporation.

Morally it is quite similar but legally it isn't at all.

One might be covered by a specific piece of legislation, the other one by The Criminal Code or its NSW equivalent.

Result is the same

 

[Braveheart81]

Both examples are misappropriation.

At last count that is illegal or are you saying that NFJ didn't really do anything wrong or illegal ?

I have nowhere near enough details to know if NFJ did anything illegal. If the funds had come out of a solicitor's trust account then I would be able to say it was almost certainly illegal. There are very strict rules when it comes to operating a controlled monies account.

Given there was some loan documentation regarding how the funds were used it would seem likely that he didn't break any laws but certainly breached the NSWRU corporate governance rules.

I am not in any way arguing that what he did wasn't wrong. Wrong doesn't equal illegal though.

 

[dru]

Attitudes to the ARU of "lets just burn the joint down" are repugnant.

They are equally repugnant when addressing the NSWRU - or any other union.

 

[Braveheart81]

One might be covered by a specific piece of legislation, the other one by The Criminal Code or its NSW equivalent.

Result is the same

Do you think lending an employee money from a company is a criminal act?

 

[Scrubber2050]

I have nowhere near enough details to know if NFJ did anything illegal. If the funds had come out of a solicitor's trust account then I would be able to say it was almost certainly illegal. There are very strict rules when it comes to operating a controlled monies account.

Given there was some loan documentation regarding how the funds were used it would seem likely that he didn't break any laws but certainly breached the NSWRU corporate governance rules.

I am not in any way arguing that what he did wasn't wrong. Wrong doesn't equal illegal though.

Well the matter should be investigated by the NSW Police Service and referred to the DPP to ascertain whether charges should be laid. Transparency is the key.

One rule for all

 

[Scrubber2050]

Do you think lending an employee money from a company is a criminal act?

Normally NOT if it is YOUR company

 

[I like to watch]

Do you think lending an employee money from a company is a criminal act?

if the article is to be relied upon.
"it was kept a secret for 6 months until finance raised the anomoly"
that's damning to me.

I'm sure there is paperwork in place now, protecting everyone involved.

 

[Braveheart81]

if the article is to be relied upon.
"it was kept a secret for 6 months until finance raised the anomoly"
that's damning to me.

I'm sure there is paperwork in place now, protecting everyone involved.

Agreed. Still probably not a criminal act though from what I can see.

NFJ and Worboys clearly had authority to act on the bank account.

The media articles make it clear that a transfer of that amount required approval of two directors but that is a corporate governance issue not a legal one.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Agreed. Still probably not a criminal act though from what I can see.

NFJ and Worboys clearly had authority to act on the bank account.

The media articles make it clear that a transfer of that amount required approval of two directors but that is a corporate governance issue not a legal one.

What's the criminality on using the federal grant money for a purpose to which it was not intended? (taking your earlier point about which bank acoount/budget it probably came from)

 

[Scrubber2050]

Agreed. Still probably not a criminal act though from what I can see.

NFJ and Worboys clearly had authority to act on the bank account.

The media articles make it clear that a transfer of that amount required approval of two directors but that is a corporate governance issue not a legal one.

Then it is probably up to the Directors to make the complaint - as if that will happen.

 

[Braveheart81]

What's the criminality on using the federal grant money for a purpose to which it was not intended? (taking your earlier point about which bank account/budget it probably came from)

I don't know. Not at all in my area of expertise.

The fact that the Department of Premier and Cabinet are aware certainly indicates it is a substantial issue.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Using Commonwealth funds for a purpose not covered by Appropriation was always an offence under the Public Service Act, and I believe under the Crimes Act. Just how that might apply to a third party who has been handed responsibility for the funds is unclear to me, but with the penchant of recent governments to outsource any and all responsibilities they can to contractors/consultants, I think it is an issue that deserves a lot of attention.

 

[I like to watch]

^^^ when its all said and done.
money was returned in full.
all parties involved, have been moved on.

who gains from expending time and effort to set fire to these guys?
I'd rather ask, how there could be these sorts of funds sitting idle, when there are so many ways to spend it!
who does the budgets ?????

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^ when its all said and done.
money was returned in full.
all parties involved, have been moved on.

who gains from expending time and effort to set fire to these guys?
I'd rather ask, how there could be these sorts of funds sitting idle, when there are so many ways to spend it!
who does the budgets ?????

So you get away with it as long as you repay the money ?

 

[gel]

Are you guys qualified "Internet Lawyers", or just your average "Attorney's at LOL"?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Scrubber I think the point ILTW makes is what is the beneficial outcome that can be made?

NFJ and Worsby have already had their reputations tarnished by their actions. They have both left the NSWRU so therefore cannot have their employment terminated.

Unless there are potential legal ramifications for the two of them, what is taking action going to achieve?

 

[Quick Hands]

One might be covered by a specific piece of legislation, the other one by The Criminal Code or its NSW equivalent.

Result is the same

The NSW Crimes Act of 1900 operates slightly differently to states which have a criminal code. In NSW the common law offence of larceny still operates and various sections have been added to the Crimes Act over the years to include other theft type offences and to make them "punishable as larceny". This includes: embezzlement, larceny as a clerk or servant, larceny as a bailee, fraudulent misappropriation, fraudulent appropriation and many others where one of the 8 proofs of larceny at common law can't be prooved.

In order to know precisely which section applied would depend on the circumstances conditions under which the funds were provided. Intent to return the property concerned is no defence. At the very least the matter requires police investigation IMO.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^ when its all said and done.
money was returned in full.
all parties involved, have been moved on.

who gains from expending time and effort to set fire to these guys?
I'd rather ask, how there could be these sorts of funds sitting idle, when there are so many ways to spend it!
who does the budgets ?????

And are there any other sums of money "just sitting in the bank" not being spent promoting the game because those running it are so bereft of ideas or imagination to do so.

 

[Quick Hands]

Im glad Pulver is refusing to give money to the NSWRU slush fund. How many years and decades of infighting, divisions and dodgy dealings does Australian rugby have to put up with before it is stamped out? It took almost 100 years for the NSW cartel to realise rugby was played in other states and throw 10 cents to each state. Throw in all the doom and gloom journos and we can all see clear as day that for all that NSW has contributed to rugby, it is still rugby in Australias biggest problem child. When the clubs are trying to go it alone at the expense of the governing body, it shows how factional, protectionist and divided NSW really is. Qld couldn't distance themselves fast enough from the Papworth dribble. WA has always had to put up with NSW trying to hinder the Forces progress. The extra $15 million thrown at the Rebels to get started proves this. When is rugby in Australia going to unite for the common good? We have one of the best internationally played games behind soccer. Yet we can't seem to promote our game beyond the private school, landrover driving, chardonnay sippy old money brigade. We just finished 2nd in the world cup. What has this years main stories been about? The demise of rugby in Australia due to a couple old boys having a sook. Not about how we came from nowhere to be in the final, not about the unique opportunities provided by rugby, not about the young kid from the unfashionable background making it big, not about how powerful a rugby nation we actually are, not about the upcoming boom in 7s rugby, not about the volunteer overcoming adversity for the love of their club. Its been about the alleged shambles the rebuilding Wallabies are, the ever present rumour of a franchise being destroyed, the old boys brigade having a sook, the corrupt dealings of NSW rugby, the concerted effort to destabilize the NRC, the need for NSW clubs to be more important than the national effort to grow the game.
It makes me sick yo continuously read the stories of how rugby is doomed. It makes me sick to read about the stories of heavy criticism by a few out of touch journos. It makes me sick to read about the demise of one of our franchises. It makes me sick to read about mishandling of government funding by NSWRU. It makes me sick that for all the progress Australian rugby is finally making towards having a truly national presence is being white anted by vested interests.

What makes me really sick is that the thing that gets lost in all the bullshit is what a truly wonderful sport we have and how lucky we are we get to participate in it.

What makes me the most sick though is it is all coming from the one state. The one state that has always considered itself the "keeper of the game". The one state that has always held back rugby from gaining the national prominence it deserves. The one state that is once again threatening to tear apart the the best game in the world. The one state whos sense of entitlement has always keep the sport to an exclusive few.

NSW Rugby, get your shit together. For once do whats best for Australian rugby not whats best for the exclusive club of once were importants. Rugby will never get the respect and standing it deserves until you do.

You ask for people to unite for the common good in the middle of a diatribe of division.

Anyone displaying this sort of pathological hatred of one part of Australian rugby has no credibility whatsoever.