South Africa tour (and squad)

[DPK]

I still think JOC (James O'Connor) is a better option at fullback than Beale since his defense in that position is far more reliable. Case & point Beale's weak tackling effort on Mils for the first try on the weekend. The experiment with JOC (James O'Connor) at 14 has not worked, but he was doing quite well at 15 before AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was moved back. Shep should move into 14, and we could definitely do with his finishing ability on the ground.

I disagree, I think JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale are about equal in terms of defence.

And I'm fairly sure that the example you used was JOC (James O'Connor)'s defensive lapse, as he was out positioned and made a weak attempt.

 

[louie]

JOC (James O'Connor) needs to learn how to pass the ball more often.

 

[chiraag]

I disagree, I think JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale are about equal in terms of defence.

And I'm fairly sure that the example you used was JOC (James O'Connor)'s defensive lapse, as he was out positioned and made a weak attempt.

JO'C was caught out of position in the example I used as he was involved in the previous phase and was towards the middle of the ground, so couldn;t make any attempt. I agree positionally he isn't up to scratch on the wing. But if he was playing fullback, I would back him to bring Mils down 1 on 1 with a textbook around the ankles tackle, as opposed to the really weak effort Beale put in going too high and not even slowing Mils down at all. I also think he provides just as much in attack with a better ability to break tackles and probably a better kicking game as well. Having said that, I agree he should probably pass a bit more.

He hasn't looked great the last couple of games because he is playing out of position. Put him back at 15 and he'll shine again

 

[Groucho]

But if he was playing fullback, I would back him to bring Mils down 1 on 1 with a textbook around the ankles tackle, as opposed to the really weak effort Beale put in going too high and not even slowing Mils down at all.

That's really not true. Watch it again. Beale was coming across in cover but couldn't get to Mils, high or low. There is certainly no way he could have got to Mils ankles.

The reason he was coming across and not in position was that he'd just made a great head-on tackle in the last line of defence.

 

[DPK]

That's really not true. Watch it again. Beale was coming across in cover but couldn't get to Mils, high or low. There is certainly no way he could have got to Mils ankles.

The reason he was coming across and not in position was that he'd just made a great head-on tackle in the last line of defence.

I admire JO'C's ability to tackle the big men, something I've personally had trouble with in my "career". Fullback is one of the hardest areas to defend from, wing is also underated by most and is very difficult to defend.

I'd take Beale over JO'C this year, and maybe even next year. JO'C has to stop being shoved around the backline and settle, and this should begin at the force. If he's going to play fullback, settle there and develop. At the moment he seems to be becoming a jack of all trades and master of none.

 

[chiraag]

That's really not true. Watch it again. Beale was coming across in cover but couldn't get to Mils, high or low. There is certainly no way he could have got to Mils ankles.

The reason he was coming across and not in position was that he'd just made a great head-on tackle in the last line of defence.

OK, had another look at the replay and am sticking with my original point of view. Beale was not involved in the previous two phases that I could see on the replay I found on the net. JOC (James O'Connor) brought down Conrad Smith the previous phase so was not on the wing.

Beale had plenty of time to position himself well enough to cover Mils going around him. The inside man (Coko I think) who passed off to Mils was covered by a wallaby coming back in defense and Beale just gave Mils too much room on the outside and put in a weak tackling effort.

Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree and Beale will probably get the nod at 15 in the next game after a pretty decent performance. I'm just saying i think JOC (James O'Connor) is a better all-round option despite not looking great the last couple of games after playing out of position.

I would definitely like him to be settled in a position, which he was for the majority of the force season playing at 15.

 

[Groucho]

OK, had another look at the replay and am sticking with my original point of view. Beale was not involved in the previous two phases that I could see on the replay I found on the net. JOC (James O'Connor) brought down Conrad Smith the previous phase so was not on the wing.

Beale had plenty of time to position himself well enough to cover Mils going around him. The inside man (Coko I think) who passed off to Mils was covered by a wallaby coming back in defense and Beale just gave Mils too much room on the outside and put in a weak tackling effort.

Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree and Beale will probably get the nod at 15 in the next game after a pretty decent performance. I'm just saying i think JOC (James O'Connor) is a better all-round option despite not looking great the last couple of games after playing out of position.

I would definitely like him to be settled in a position, which he was for the majority of the force season playing at 15.

chiraag, one play before that (at 5:05) Beale brought down a charging Tom Donnelly, and was at the bottom of the ensuing ruck.

 

[Lindommer]

Wallabies are losing because there are too many Queenslanders in the team. That's my conclusion.

#1 Tah, even I couldn't come to that conclusion. We're losing because we currently have too many injuries. Australia has been successful in the past when our best 20 or so players are constantly on the paddock. At the moment 8 of our first choice players are injured/suspended and the lack of quality depth in Australian rugby is cruelly exposed. This is what Deans is trying to address with the many debutants he's brought forward the last two years.

Get our injured players back and we'll beat anyone. And some of them happen to be Queenslanders.

 

[Scotty]

Injured from normal 22 man squad:

Alexander
TPN
Horwill
Palu
Hynes
Ioane

Who am I missing? Not sure we should count Horne yet, as he may have only been there due to the injuries of others in the first place, and hasn't really grabbed the opportunity with 2 hands as yet.

So I've got 6. 3x Qld, 2x NSW, 1x ACT

 

[Scotty]

I suppose I could add in Cooper as he was unavailable the last two games. But that would bring it up to 4 Reds out of 7, and leave me open to accusations of bias?!

 

[RugbyReg]

Scotty - its some positions though and thus game plans.

Just big burley outside centres alone - Ioane, Chambers and Morltock. Chuck in Horne as another 13 option and it is a hard position to cover.

 

[Scotty]

Agreed on the 13 spot. The world cup might come a year too early to work out if Chambers could be the next Mortlock, or to see if Horne can grow into the role.

 

[Thomo]

I liked the look of A Fainga'a at 12. He needs a lot of polish, for sure, but to me there's something right about the balance of the backline with him there. On the one hand, he got caught out defensively a couple of times (fixable with time) but he also made some telling tackles dropping the All Blacks behind their advantage line, and he looked like the only Wallaby who was going to break a tackle (apart from perhaps AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)). He gave the backline some raw grunt.

So the question is: does Fainga'a at 12 compliment Cooper's style better than Gitteau at 12? I think the answer is yes. But this is crazy talk, right? Gitteau is too good to be left out?

So here's the mad option that keeps both of them: put Gitteau at fullback. McQuuen turned Larkham from a 15 into a 10. Perhaps Our Robbie should do the opposite with Gitteau?

I mean if Beale can make a recent fist of being an international 15, why can't Gitteau?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It's not that crazy. The 10 and 15 positions have a lot of the same skill set and plenty of players have interchanged between them over the years. It's a more natural switch than a lot of other positional changes.

 

[Ruggo]

Just drop Gitau. He is not in form, it is as simple as that.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Just drop Gitau. He is not in form, it is as simple as that.

That is the other option and one I don't personally have a problem with. It seems like we are getting into contortions trying to fit him into the team. If he can't command a place at 10 (he can't) and we have other options now at 12 (we do) and we have a number of options at fullback (we do) then perhaps it's time for him to sit down.

 

[Scotty]

Why on earth would you drop the likes of Beale, who's star is rising, and has a bunch of potential, just to put the fading star of Giteau into the team? Madness. Giteau doesn't look good for team harmony if we believe all the reports out of various camps and not to mention his aggressive behaviour to team mates on the field. And it isn't like his kicking is that good. He can barely kick the ball 45meters!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

As an aside on the Giteau issue, there is a great mini-interview with David Parkin (legendary coach of my beloved Blue Baggers) on the issue of brilliant players and their relationship with their team mates.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/video/0,,AFL Insider_38457,00.html

Some of this might apply to guys like Giteau.

 

[Lindommer]

Why on earth would you drop the likes of Beale, who's star is rising, and has a bunch of potential, just to put the fading star of Giteau into the team? Madness.

Hear, Hear! At the moment the futures market for Wallaby 15s would rank thus:

1. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
2. Beale
3. Hynes
4. JOC (James O'Connor)
5. Shepherd
6. Mitchell
7. Turner
8. Lealiifano
9. Giteau

The only thing which could bump him up the table is his kicking, but if Cooper knocks over a few difficult ones Giteau HAS to cut the mustard at 12.

 

[MrMouse]

We're losing because we currently have too many injuries.

I agree. Way too many injuries to our Warallabies.
You slot TPN, Baxter, Waugh, Palu, and Horne in and watch 'em go. Add Douglas, Mowen, and Hangers to the bench, with TC an honourable mention at 23rd man and we're right to go.