South Africa restores race quotas

[Braveheart81]

I'm not really sure how your point relates to mine. Also, I should have probably said that I don't necessarily agree with the premise above, I was just playing devils advocate.

The people behind a quota system are thinking that it will help them get a fair go, rather than giving them some sort of inherent advantage.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The thinking in SA is that minorities are coming from so far behind the 8-Ball that this is needed to help them catch up.

The issue is it doesn't address the actual problem, and doesn't actual assist players in catching up.

They are trying to fix a bottom end problem at the top end. Whilst I understand their logic I think it is unbelievably flawed (and ironically racist - the very thing they are being implemented because of!) and will not create a long term solution.

The problem needs to be dealt with at the amateur level in order to benefit the professional level.

 

[Mank]

The proponents pushing for a quota would probably argue that a major reason behind it is they don't believe players are being picked on ability at the moment and black players are unfairly overlooked.

There have been several foreign coaches in South African rugby. Plumtree and Mitchell most recently spring to mind. Unless you think there is something in the water in SA that turns these guys into racists then I'd rather stick to a less sinister viewpoint that coaches live and die by results and will pick the players they believe can get those results.

 

[Mank]

The thinking in SA is that minorities are coming from so far behind the 8-Ball that this is needed to help them catch up.

The issue is it doesn't address the actual problem, and doesn't actual assist players in catching up.

They are trying to fix a bottom end problem at the top end. Whilst I understand their logic I think it is unbelievably flawed (and ironically racist - the very thing they are being implemented because of!) and will not create a long term solution.

The problem needs to be dealt with at the amateur level in order to benefit the professional level.

I repeat myself but here you have hit on the core of the problem. Politicians are despicable people the world over and will do anything for votes. In order to help fix the problem they should be pouring money into the sport at the right levels, making for equal playing fields. But they are not interested in fixing the problem, they are interested in votes.

If you travel to SA you can see that a lot of development has been done by SARU at lower levels. In my playing days (10+ years ago in SA) we saw a number of clubs in poorer, traditionally black areas, progress into the 1st division of club rugby, all from money coming from the unions, not from government.

I know that opinions on this issue are strong, and I don't want to criticise what amounts to personal moral opinions, but I'd encourage some of you to look more closely at the pragmatic side of these things in SA. See that work has been done by SARU (they are not entirely stupid) but like the ARU, SARU has it's equivalent problems trying to develop the game in SA (money isn't infinite).

I do believe some people mean well if they're advocating quotas. It does seem to make sense on a superficial level but my personal opinion, moral issues aside, is it does not even achieve - long term - the intended result when applied at the highest levels.

 

[PaarlBok]

Cricket also have the pressure
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cricket/domestic/race-quotas-set-for-cricket-franchises-1.1706946

Race quotas set for cricket franchises

June 21 2014 at 01:07pm
By Patrick Compton
Johannesburg - FRANCHISES must play at least five players of colour in their teams – including a minimum of two black Africans – from the start of next season, according to a decision by the Board of Directors of Cricket South Africa (CSA) on Friday.
Furthermore, teams playing in semi-professional competitions will have to field at least six players of colour, three of whom must be black Africans. This means that, compared to last season, the overall figure for players of colour in general has been raised by one, as has the required number for black Africans.
Last season’s incentive-based scheme for encouraging the selection of black Africans has been ditched.
Jesse Chellan, the chief executive of the KwaZulu-Natal Cricket Union, said he was not surprised by the decision. “Clearly, this is part of CSA’s transformation drive and, in particular, their project of increasing the number of black Africans playing at higher levels.”
He said that from his franchise’s point of view, the overall target of five players of colour was not an issue. “The Dolphins have often played five players of colour in their teams anyway, so that’s not a problem.”
He said, however, that the increase in the number of black African players would provide the franchise with a challenge. “We’ve got a good pool of African players, but they’re very young and inexperienced. We’ve got a lot of hard work ahead of us this winter to prepare the guys.”
The Dolphins have just lost their pace bowler, Mthokozisi Shezi, who was signed by the Cobras in the off-season. This leaves just one player, Khaya Zondo, who has significant franchise experience. Chellan said the Dolphins would be investigating the usefulness of the loan system so that one franchise can loan out a player if they are not using him themselves

 

[southsider]

if these quotas do come through rather soon, do people think it may change the makeup of the new super comp? It may push NZ right into Australias hands and gift us a pacific rugby comp involving more Asian teams.

Personally if these quotas become reality id like to see us boycott sth African rugby (don't think it would happen though)

 

[Dewald Nel]

It's all legalised racism.

It all smells of the ANC acting ASAP to resurrect the fact that they lost so many votes compared to 2009 in this year's selection.

They should just fuck it all up and get it over with. All they're doing, is giving us false hope every time it isn't properly implemented, making us think it'll go away.

 

[PaarlBok]

Cosatu does it again, Matfields scrum pet!

South Africa: Cosatu Calls On Sports Minister to Intervene in Rugby

30 June 2014
COSATU calls on the ministers and sport administrators to intervene in rugby more decisively, as the powers that be drag their feet in transforming. The old boys club in rugby still control things in the same way they always have and they manage their public relations to reinforce this.
The Coach is always presented as now fixing the problems that Pieter de Villiers caused, to undermine the latter, yet we are bringing back old players when there are existing new ones around. The team on the field is still over-represented by white players, even though there are many great black players in the squad.
Looking at the match on Saturday, again black players are brought onto the field in the last five minutes, even though the springboks are comfortably ahead. This is because the Coach is scared that the black players will outshine the white players, if they get lots of game time.
Even when players go off for injury, they are rushed back on because the black replacements may shine.
The arrogance of the white boys club continues to be displayed very publicly, an example being how Matfield wears an old South African riot squad skull cap, completely disregarding how this may impact on the sentiments of black South Africans. He should be told to wear a cap with new national symbols.
The time is now to take decisive steps in respect of rugby and stop pandering to the old boys club. The powers in the game are money and the big sponsors who are able to put money in the game because of the tax breaks that National Government gives them. Government should also put their foot down in respect of the DSTV stranglehold in relation to the coverage of many aspects of South African Rugby.
There is a need for a comprehensive new deal in Rugby and most sports codes and Government must act decisively in respect of advancing it and not pander to the white establishment. Political leadership must act more decisively in advancing a more representative team in all sporting codes, as they have all the tools for achieving this at their disposal.

 

[Tex]

Can you explain what an "old South African riot squad skull cap" is?

 

[PaarlBok]

Can you explain what an "old South African riot squad skull cap" is?

I think Cosatu wants Matfield to wear a cap that represent the new South Africa and the only one I can think of is a shower cap. Only joking, no the riot police use to wear that camo colour caps. Ironically in those days it was illegal for the public to wear that colours on clothing.

 

[liquor box]

What happens if the team is selected and a colored player is injured during the warm up, can they be replaced by a white player?

If they cant then if you want a starting hooker or prop to be a colored player then you would have to select bench players the same color and also your third choice.

I think this opens up the opportunity for Australian franchises to recruit talented white props and second rowers (spots Australia struggles to fill with world class talent) and offer them a chance to play top level rugby.

 

[liquor box]

I think Cosatu wants Matfield to wear a cap that represent the new South Africa and the only one I can think of is a shower cap. Only joking, no the riot police use to wear that camo colour caps. Ironically in those days it was illegal for the public to wear that colours on clothing.

I have long thought that headgear should be a team issued and team colored headgear.

Boks should have green, Wallabies gold and NZ Black

 

[qwerty51]

So we give the refs even more reason to spot us in the ruck and harder for them to spot NZ and SA?

 

[Hawko]

So we give the refs even more reason to spot us in the ruck and harder for them to spot NZ and SA?

I'm with you Qwerty; charcoal grey-black (to distinguish from All Black black) seems to be the best camouflage. I reckon all Australian teams should issue their players with a set before the season start and only allow that colour to be worn.

 

[ChargerWA]

We should just wear black jerseys, then we can get away with everything.

 

[PaarlBok]

What happens if the team is selected and a colored player is injured during the warm up, can they be replaced by a white player?

If they cant then if you want a starting hooker or prop to be a colored player then you would have to select bench players the same color and also your third choice.

I think this opens up the opportunity for Australian franchises to recruit talented white props and second rowers (spots Australia struggles to fill with world class talent) and offer them a chance to play top level rugby.

Its a coach nightmare. At the youth weeks each player have to play a minimum of time to make this more complicated. If the team dont, they get relegated. Plus one of the coach/manager have to be a coloured person.

 

[liquor box]

We should just wear black jerseys, then we can get away with everything.

or a white number 7 on all of our jerseys

 

[Dismal Pillock]

 

[ChargerWA]

or a white number 7 on all of our jerseys

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

They're baaaaaack:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/31638936

Question for our SA members: is this for real or is someone up for re-election/ re-appointment/ re-getting his name back in the papers?