South Africa restores race quotas

[southsider]

if this is true it is absolutely disgraceful and a backward step for south Africa and their rugby. Don't give a shit wether the team is all white, all black or full of little green spacemen originating from mars the best players should be picked regardless of race end of story!
Hopefully its just a slow news day and poor journalism........

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...cup/story-e6frf4pu-1226697495465#.UgxLhsR-808

 

[Dan54]

I was reading this earlier South, have to say I was a bit surprised, I certainly won't get into rights and wrongs of it, but certainly feel that Saffas have the right to feel it makes it even more difficult for their teams to win!!

 

[PiXeL_Ninja]

It is only the Vodacom Cup, a developmental tournament, one tier below Currie Cup. So I suppose I can stomach it. My concern is that they then implement another quota at Currie Cup level and then Super Rugby, then Nationally.

I will not watch a single VC Game Live or on TV.

We all know that the ANC guavament is pressurizing SARU on the quotas behind the scenes at ALL levels, and this is SARU bowing to that pressure in a way that will not piss off the fans, But if the Rot climbs any higher I will no longer be watching those tournaments either, and or support those teams in any way.

 

[Mank]

Let me guess, there is an election coming up?

 

[PaarlBok]

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Qoutas is so part of our sport it aint even funny anymore. The Springbokke always had a qouta system going, no surprise there. The only question is : for how long will this continue and why dont boycott the Wallabies us not. This is reverse apartheid and should be punished by those who punished the Old SA.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Well if they want to artificially hurt their competitiveness at international level in the long term who am I to stop them? I personally think quotas like this are absolutely wrong. Development of black/coloured players has to start at the grass roots and the best ones (like the white kids) will make their way to the top.

 

[PiXeL_Ninja]

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Qoutas is so part of our sport it aint even funny anymore. The Springbokke always had a qouta system going, no surprise there. The only question is : for how long will this continue and why dont boycott the Wallabies us not. This is reverse apartheid and should be punished by those who punished the Old SA.

Didnt you get the memo? Only whites can be racists.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you.. so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.

You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day.

You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.

You have the NAACP. You have BET. If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.

If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know we'd be racists.

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US ... Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud...... But you call me a racist.
Why is it that only whites can be racists??

-Michael Richards

 

[smithcentral]

Well if they want to artificially hurt their competitiveness at international level in the long term who am I to stop them? I personally think quotas like this are absolutely wrong. Development of black/coloured players has to start at the grass roots and the best ones (like the white kids) will make their way to the top.

I agree Brown Hornet. The best players should be part of the teams, regardless of their "colour". If what Pixel Ninja says is correct (which is not as it has been reported in Australia), it is only Vodacom Cup, which I guess is another experiment. If it is carried through to higher levels I can see an influx of promising young South Africans (whose families to have the wherewithal and eligibility) leaving South Africa for Australian and UK schools.

 

[PiXeL_Ninja]

I agree Brown Hornet. The best players should be part of the teams, regardless of their "colour". If what Pixel Ninja says is correct (which is not as it has been reported in Australia), it is only Vodacom Cup, which I guess is another experiment. If it is carried through to higher levels I can see an influx of promising young South Africans (whose families to have the wherewithal and eligibility) leaving South Africa for Australian and UK schools.

This is the scariest thing to come from that article, as it suggests that this is only the beginning and SARU will look to become more aggressive with their quotas:

“We’ve been falling behind in terms of those targets in terms of all teams. We decided that the Vodacom Cup was a starting point to ensure we implement those targets. We had agreed to targets that translate to around 33 or 35 per cent and these are simply being put into action in the Vodacom Cup.”

“We had a big transformation workshop last year where all the provinces all agreed to targets for all teams. We looked at those targets with the understanding they are set to be increased every year,” Hoskins explains.

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/sa-rugby/news/130815/Saru_had_to_act_on_quotas_Hoskins

Basically, because SARU have failed to implement good grass route structures in the black communities, they are implementing quotas to give the illusion of "transformation", at the cost of being competitive. How the hell can you compete vs the AB's and the Wallabies when your Quota players have only touched a rugby ball for the first time in their late teens, vs other players that have grown up passing the ball, there is going to be a big divide between the two in terms of core skills.

 

[smithcentral]

This is the scariest thing to come from that article, as it suggests that this is only the beginning and SARU will look to become more aggressive with their quotas:



http://www.supersport.com/rugby/sa-rugby/news/130815/Saru_had_to_act_on_quotas_Hoskins

Basically, because SARU have failed to implement good grass route structures in the black communities, they are implementing quotas to give the illusion of "transformation", at the cost of being competitive. How the hell can you compete vs the AB's and the Wallabies when your Quota players have only touched a rugby ball for the first time in their late teens, vs other players that have grown up passing the ball, there is going to be a big divide between the two in terms of core skills.

I'm hearing you Pixel. South Africa is not the only country to try to "fix" rugby with a top-down approach. It is certainly not the right way to go.

 

[biltong]

It is what it is.

I would just like the Government to admit the problem is theirs as well as SARU's

YOu can't hold SARU responsible as the soul developer of rugby, the numbers will only grow if more schools play rugby and therefor they need facilities.

But at the end of the day Vodacom Cup is there as a developmental tool, and if it helps to bring more players of colour into the mix then good.

There is one thing SARU can do though. Have an academy for the Vodacom players, no matter their colour, let the youngsters from Vodacom get more intensive skill, fitness etc training as that can bridge the loss of all young players between Pro rugby and amateur rugby.

 

[PaarlBok]

Well if they want to artificially hurt their competitiveness at international level in the long term who am I to stop them? I personally think quotas like this are absolutely wrong. Development of black/coloured players has to start at the grass roots and the best ones (like the white kids) will make their way to the top.

This has been in place for 21 years already. This surely wont make any differense all of a sudden. At grassroot level qoutas are in place in all sports on provincial level.

 

[I like to watch]

It's not working because the super franchises have their heads in the sand.
What if they had spent the resources on 10 yo's a decade ago?
The black population is 10 times greater than the white.
If they could have more black kids than white kids at 10, and properly support their Rugby development throughout the age groups,these quotas would be meaningless.

 

[smithcentral]

This has been in place for 21 years already. This surely wont make any differense all of a sudden. At grassroot level qoutas are in place in all sports on provincial level.

I didn't know that PaarlBok. Can you tell us more about that please?

 

[PaarlBok]

It is what it is.

I would just like the Government to admit the problem is theirs as well as SARU's

YOu can't hold SARU responsible as the soul developer of rugby, the numbers will only grow if more schools play rugby and therefor they need facilities.

But at the end of the day Vodacom Cup is there as a developmental tool, and if it helps to bring more players of colour into the mix then good.

There is one thing SARU can do though. Have an academy for the Vodacom players, no matter their colour, let the youngsters from Vodacom get more intensive skill, fitness etc training as that can bridge the loss of all young players between Pro rugby and amateur rugby.

Saru and the ANC is just to stupid to fully understand transformation. If they want to fix this , they should look at the way Boland have done this. Rugby is a culture in Boland in all townships, towns, rich or poor where ever, even our Bergies play touchies with empty plastic wine bottles. This starts at the very bottom level at schools. It wont change in my or my kids lifetime, it all goes to window dressing from the other provinces.

 

[PaarlBok]

I didn't know that PaarlBok. Can you tell us more about that please?

At Craven Week (the highlight of any Saffer schoolboy player) they have qouta (they call them PoC = Player of Colour) requirements in place like above. In field hockey we have the same type of provincial tournament going called IPT (Inter Provincial Tournament) and in cricket they called it Nuffield Week. All those requirements are in place from bottom (u13) to top (u18) age groups.

My son played IPT hockey, so I know them well. In the squad of 15 they have to have 4 PoCs and one of the coach or manager have to be a PoC.

Each of the players have to play at least 160 min in the tournament.

If the provinces dont aplly this they get disqualified from these torunaments.

Apart from the confusion for the kids, ccan you imagen what organising skills the coach have to go through because he play different strength of teams.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I agree Brown Hornet. The best players should be part of the teams, regardless of their "colour". If what Pixel Ninja says is correct (which is not as it has been reported in Australia), it is only Vodacom Cup, which I guess is another experiment. If it is carried through to higher levels I can see an influx of promising young South Africans (whose families to have the wherewithal and eligibility) leaving South Africa for Australian and UK schools.

Yep, there have been a huge amount of South African and Zimbabwean families emigrating to WA over the last decade or so and you're seeing their progeny appear in school and club rugby in ever increasing numbers. Good stuff I say. It's not just white families either. My Dad's PA and her husband (a doctor) are black Zimbabweans and will never go back home. They love it in Australia too much. Their kids are born and bred Aussies.

 

[smithcentral]

At Craven Week (the highlight of any Saffer schoolboy player) they have qouta (they call them PoC = Player of Colour) requirements in place like above. In field hockey we have the same type of provincial tournament going called IPT (Inter Provincial Tournament) and in cricket they called it Nuffield Week. All those requirements are in place from bottom (u13) to top (u18) age groups.

My son played IPT hockey, so I know them well. In the squad of 15 they have to have 4 PoCs and one of the coach or manager have to be a PoC.

Each of the players have to play at least 160 min in the tournament.

If the provinces dont aplly this they get disqualified from these torunaments.

Apart from the confusion for the kids, ccan you imagen what organising skills the coach have to go through because he play different strength of teams.

Thanks PaarlBok. Complicated! Very difficult for the coaches. Does it cause problems between the team members?

 

[southsider]

At Craven Week (the highlight of any Saffer schoolboy player) they have qouta (they call them PoC = Player of Colour) requirements in place like above. In field hockey we have the same type of provincial tournament going called IPT (Inter Provincial Tournament) and in cricket they called it Nuffield Week. All those requirements are in place from bottom (u13) to top (u18) age groups.

My son played IPT hockey, so I know them well. In the squad of 15 they have to have 4 PoCs and one of the coach or manager have to be a PoC.

Each of the players have to play at least 160 min in the tournament.

If the provinces dont aplly this they get disqualified from these torunaments.

Apart from the confusion for the kids, ccan you imagen what organising skills the coach have to go through because he play different strength of teams.

how do the "coloured" kids feel about this? or "coloured" people in general? do you happen to know?

its just I had a slightly similar experience (without giving too much away) my dad was in charge of a major sponsorship with junior rugby, we were at a rep carnival and my dad was approached by someone who asked "if he'd like me" to be in the team they were picking from this carnival. My dad said no and told me what had happened and I told him he'd made the right call, id hate to be picked in team because of something other than my skill level.

Just curious as to if its maybe the same reaction over there or if its just accepted a lot easier?

 

[PaarlBok]

Thanks PaarlBok. Complicated! Very difficult for the coaches. Does it cause problems between the team members?

No not at all. Its more a problem for the kids that lose out on selection. The white kids will always feel they lost out because of qoutas while the team members bond well as a team. In hockey the coach need to use the players that dont perform on the level in other positions which mean he end up with a lot of strikers as an example. In rugby he need to use the weaker links against the weaker teams.