Shute Shield 2018

[Quick Hands]

Meanwhile back at the ranch, we see how the ARU/RA choose to spend their (our) money. $1 million syphoned off through the back door to sort out the super rugby mess.

Confidential documents obtained by Seven West Media show the Australian Rugby Union — now RA — agreed to pay former Rebels owner, New Zealand businessman Andrew Cox, $300,000 and then-director Peter Sidwell $200,000.
The money was then paid to the Rebels.
The documents also state two other directors Lyndsey Cattermole and Bob Dalziel “gift” the Rebels $250,000 each. The combined amounts effectively cleared the Rebels debt of $789,811 that allowed Cox to sell the club to the Victorian Rugby Union for $1 under a Put Option agreement, effectively spelling the end of the Force as the Rebels could then not be closed
The deed of settlement says Cox and Sidwell: “ ... respectively direct that the respective payments to them be paid to MRRUPL for the purposes of MRRUPL satisfying the Debt Free Requirement and MRRUPL agrees that these payments will be used solely for this purpose”.
It also says Cattermole and Dalziel promise to the ARU “... they have each gifted $250,000 to MRRUPL for the purpose of MRRUPL satisfying the Debt Free requirement and MRRUPL agrees that these gifted amounts will be solely for this purpose”.
Cox used the put option and sold 11,625,000 Rebels shares to the VRU on August 4 for $1.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/w...bels-sealed-western-forces-fate-ng-b88806001z

 

[Dave Beat]

About doing something a little different, this may have pros and cons.
A club called Pacific Island Rugby Club.
Instead of competing purely on code, a number of these great Pacific Island people are very patriotic and may stick around in rugby becuase of their nationality and it possibly providing a pathway to representative honours of their nation.
Note Fiji are already in the NRC so it may have a flow on affect there as well.
For reference it also just so happens there are alot of Pacific Island Families out west so could it replace Penrith in a broader geographic area,

 

[Inside Shoulder]

About doing something a little different, this may have pros and cons.
A club called Pacific Island Rugby Club.
Instead of competing purely on code, a number of these great Pacific Island people are very patriotic and may stick around in rugby becuase of their nationality and it possibly providing a pathway to representative honours of their nation.
Note Fiji are already in the NRC so it may have a flow on affect there as well.
For reference it also just so happens there are alot of Pacific Island Families out west so could it replace Penrith in a broader geographic area,

i like your thinking but ethnically based teams in all codes have a troubled history

 

[Dave Beat]

i like your thinking but ethnically based teams in all codes have a troubled history

Yeah?
I wasnt sure.
Thats odd hey, I wonder why that is.
Could that be offset by a credentialled Aussie coach - whilst not Aussie, and always being strong - look what Ben Ryan did with the Fiji 7s. Respecting and liking the coach could offset that ethnic issue.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yeah?
I wasnt sure.
Thats odd hey, I wonder why that is.
Could that be offset by a credentialled Aussie coach - whilst not Aussie, and always being strong - look what Ben Ryan did with the Fiji 7s. Respecting and liking the coach could offset that ethnic issue.

Part of soccer’s issues stems from this and in the olden days there was a subbies team NZ south Sydney who had a few issues. Times might have changed but it would need close monitoring.

 

[Rugby Central]

Ever noticed how the solutions to fixing 'The Riff' or Shute Shield in general never actually suggest changing the existing Clubs and the structure. It's always about someone else making the change or complaints about lack of support.

I've made several suggestions in the past how things could improve but some people refuse point blank to countenance any change to the way things are. If you refuse to change, don't expect change to come.

The fact is Shute Shield competes with Subbies for players because the structures ARE IDENTICAL. (not shouting, just emphasis) As long as Shute Shield continues to be confused about whether they are the premier rugby competition or Clubs for social players, they will be over run by Head Office's dumb ideas. Do you know why...because they're the only one having ideas.

 

[wamberal]

From my limited view, which is admittedly confined to Eastwood, I would say that we are flat out as a rugby club more or less standing still, no time for introspection, or innovation.

 

[Dave Beat]

Ever noticed how the solutions to fixing 'The Riff' or Shute Shield in general never actually suggest changing the existing Clubs and the structure. It's always about someone else making the change or complaints about lack of support.

I've made several suggestions in the past how things could improve but some people refuse point blank to countenance any change to the way things are. If you refuse to change, don't expect change to come.

The fact is Shute Shield competes with Subbies for players because the structures ARE IDENTICAL. (not shouting, just emphasis) As long as Shute Shield continues to be confused about whether they are the premier rugby competition or Clubs for social players, they will be over run by Head Office's dumb ideas. Do you know why.because they're the only one having ideas.

Can I ask how the structures are identical?
The Shute Shield is semi professional, and over recent years even players from overseas have come across to play in a strong comp that has a pathway. It is part of the path to rep honors.
Subbies use to be known as second division, i can't draw a definitive line in time but it use to sit under the SS, now it's a bridge to far.

I think club rugby Subbies / SS play an integral part in NSWRU but how could they keep stepping forward without loosing ground? SS since ARU pulled away has created a much loved market and competition, how can that passion be sustained and pull Subbies and Penrith along for the good of rugby?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ever noticed how the solutions to fixing 'The Riff' or Shute Shield in general never actually suggest changing the existing Clubs and the structure. It's always about someone else making the change or complaints about lack of support.

I've made several suggestions in the past how things could improve but some people refuse point blank to countenance any change to the way things are. If you refuse to change, don't expect change to come.

The fact is Shute Shield competes with Subbies for players because the structures ARE IDENTICAL. (not shouting, just emphasis) As long as Shute Shield continues to be confused about whether they are the premier rugby competition or Clubs for social players, they will be over run by Head Office's dumb ideas. Do you know why.because they're the only one having ideas.

While I sympathise and agree with some of what you say I'll give Dave Beat marks for thing outside the square.
I'm not sure why you blame the Shute Shield clubs - the subbies are part of the cause.
A logical solution would have been to have subbies clubs as "lower grades" for Shute shield: so cut Ss back to 2 grade 1 colts or something and have the cubbies as feeders. But subbies want their own affiliation direct to a union and don't want to be in any way subservient to nearby SS clubs.
I also wonder if SS clubs could get the sponsorship etc if they were only 3 teams - I suspect a lot of the benefit to putting a local business name on a jersey or warm up kit comes from sheer numbers of locals who see the kit because there are 5 grade and 3 colts teams.

 

[Dave Beat]

While I sympathise and agree with some of what you say I'll give Dave Beat marks for thing outside the square.
I'm not sure why you blame the Shute Shield clubs - the subbies are part of the cause.
A logical solution would have been to have subbies clubs as "lower grades" for Shute shield: so cut Ss back to 2 grade 1 colts or something and have the cubbies as feeders. But subbies want their own affiliation direct to a union and don't want to be in any way subservient to nearby SS clubs.
I also wonder if SS clubs could get the sponsorship etc if they were only 3 teams - I suspect a lot of the benefit to putting a local business name on a jersey or warm up kit comes from sheer numbers of locals who see the kit because there are 5 grade and 3 colts teams.

Southern Districts formed from Port Hacking and St George.
West Tigers - yep league
St George Illawarra - yep league

That old saying if it aint broken dont fix it - well Penrith is busted and it is having an impact on the SS, so ideas on how to fix Penrith, rebuild, or change need to be looked at, I dont think punting them is good for rugby, but something has to be done.
Other clubs aren't busted, and they are always looking to build and grow and are doing a good job for the game.

 

[I like to watch]

Ever noticed how the solutions to fixing 'The Riff' or Shute Shield in general never actually suggest changing the existing Clubs and the structure. It's always about someone else making the change or complaints about lack of support.

I've made several suggestions in the past how things could improve but some people refuse point blank to countenance any change to the way things are. If you refuse to change, don't expect change to come.

The fact is Shute Shield competes with Subbies for players because the structures ARE IDENTICAL. (not shouting, just emphasis) As long as Shute Shield continues to be confused about whether they are the premier rugby competition or Clubs for social players, they will be over run by Head Office's dumb ideas. Do you know why.because they're the only one having ideas.

Pick one of the few areas that's actually improving year on year,and choose that to be the subject of a huge overhaul?
How about we change the structures of the bits that are dragging everyone else down as a priority.

I think it's madness that you change anything in the SS, before the Super & NRC comps are addressed.

It might make sense to address Possible changes in the SS to better support the tier/s above,but that can't be done until the tier/s above are have been sorted out.

 

[wamberal]

Good luck trying to tell SS clubs what they can or cannot do, or how they should change. Unless you have a big bag of money in one hand.

 

[Ruffledfeathers1992]

What happened to Michael Adams? I thought he went to Gordon, now I am seeing he has turned up at the Marlin$?

 

[Pfitzy]

Four Grades + Three Colts is a bit, well, fucked. Especially because the logistics dictate you're playing at two different grounds.

That is where the primary structures differ. Ask any of the First Division clubs in Subbies where they're going to find another 1-2 Colts teams, and the answer will probably be "burglary".

I've said this elsewhere, but if Shute is going to stay semipro: 3 Grades + 2 Colts.
First Div Subbies - allow payments: 3 Grades + 2 Colts
Promotion and Relegation between the two. Salary Cap might be an idea.

Effectively, Divisions 1 & 2 in Subbies are haves versus have-nots as it is, and you will find it very difficult to crack it as a startup club. Only 1 club I know of are as high as Division 3 who started within the last decade: Redfield Old Boys. They have the school as somewhat of an advantage, but they also worked their arses off to get the club stable and committed.

Every other club in the top divisions either has a decades-long history and/or well-established premises and/or a big juniors program. And no shortage of back office money.

Mostly, they have a bit of solidity in their playing lists and ongoing recruitment. Penrith don't seem to have that.

 

[I like to watch]

What happened to Michael Adams? I thought he went to Gordon, now I am seeing he has turned up at the Marlin$?

As Tony Jones would say....
I'll take that as a comment.

 

[Rugby Central]

Can I ask how the structures are identical?

A number of grades and a a colts side. The difference is numbers. What time does 1st Grade play? The same time across SS and the top 4 divisions in Subbies. Not to mention every 1st XV schoolboy team in Sydney. The semi-professional difference only exists because Subbies clamped down on payments. (Before the appeal, a life-time ban, for a $250 match payment - for the payer; not the player.)

"But subbies want their own affiliation direct to a union and don't want to be in any way subservient to nearby SS clubs."

IS, I think you need to head over to the Subbies thread to see what Subbies Clubs really think of that affiliation. Subbies Clubs are screaming out for ANY administrative direction. Offering a pathway to rep honours without having to lose players is a major bonus for Subbies Clubs. Having a formal structure linked to the District Club is good enough that they may even pay an affiliation fee if they saw a return on, say coaching assistance from the top.

Being feeder Clubs to SS is the answer, but only when SS Clubs reduce their teams. It also creates a direct pathway from local Junior club to higher honours. And here's the main point, as a reduced team number, representative, semi-to mostly professional outfit, SS can replace the NRC. Sponsorship money, TV money, spectator money can all be directed to SS

Mungo ball was played in QLD and NSW but owned by Sydney....look at it now. TV deals, Union could only fantasize about. And I don't see QLD rugby league suffering because of it.

I'm upset because SS should be the 3rd Tier. Period. They are the best game going around in Australia. But it's not because they have 4 grades and 3 Colts teams. Sadly, years of patch protection and inflexibility in imagination has left clubs pitted against each other for players, sponsors, money and fans.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

From my limited view, which is admittedly confined to Eastwood, I would say that we are flat out as a rugby club more or less standing still, no time for introspection, or innovation.

Dear God, you really are an accountants accountant aren't you? For any entity with finite limitations such as say a Rugby Club/Competition etc. innovation should be at the top of the list of things they should be doing.

 

[The Honey Badger]

You would have to think that a reduction in the number of grades would also help Penrith,

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You would have to think that a reduction in the number of grades would also help Penrith,

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Well, that would require them deciding exactly what they want to be. Community Rugby or high performance. You really cannot be both.

 

[Bandar]

I don't understand why the clubs (Subbies & Shute) can't all be affiliated with the one union. As far as i can see the major problem in Australian rugby stems from governance - why is there so much?

I would like to see all club rugby look after by the NSWRU in NSW, but even if that is too big of a step how about we have one organisation looking after rugby in Sydney, stop the crap of districts and have just clubs playing in a competition with a maximum of 3 grades per club with colts and women's.