Shute Shield 2018

[Quick Hands]

I would suggest an interim move would be to withdraw from the 2 first grade comps. Let them play down a grade.

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They tried that either last year or the year before (at least in Colts)

They really need to talk to subbies and see if they can fit them in. (Assuming that the SRU and NSWSRU talk to each other).

Surely there must be people involved in the Penrith club who realise that their very existence is in doubt if this continues. Logcially it's better for all concerned if they are in a competition in which they are competitive each week.

 

[Newby]

The Bye

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I know it would be the bye for this year , but would they look at bringing a side in for future years

 

[Quick Hands]

I know it would be the bye for this year , but would they look at bringing a side in for future years

Ideally yes, but if they do the club has to be competitive and will need significant NSWRU/RA support for at least a decade or probably 2 otherwise we'll see a repeat of what's happened to Penrith. In the early 00s there were really positive signs, but as soon as NSW and Aust pulled the support it all just fell apart.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Ideally yes, but if they do the club has to be competitive and will need significant NSWRU/RA support for at least a decade or probably 2 otherwise we'll see a repeat of what's happened to Penrith. In the early 00s there were really positive signs, but as soon as NSW and Aust pulled the support it all just fell apart.

If they were to bring in another club hopefully they look at the South-West of the city. Let Eastwood have the North West and Parramatta everywhere in between the the two. It may need to be essentially a greenfields club but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Place it in a high growth area. Work to not only get it up and running but also to help build the necessary infrastructure below it in order to to feed into it. A very much untapped region of the city.

 

[I like to watch]

Mate, they are no fucking chance without a big hand from HQ.
If HQ are prepared to do that,then why not with the Riff?

It's easy to say it their fault,for not helping themselves,but you could field a handy team of Riff players that have been poached.
It was 3 or 4 years ago they literally lost 1/2 their side.
Send Mack Mason,Mackean Jones etc etc to play out there for their Tahs money.
Yeah the south west is important,but no more so than the west.
It's much easier to give them a hand up,than to start from ground zero.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Mate, they are no fucking chance without a big hand from HQ.
If HQ are prepared to do that,then why not with the Riff?

It's easy to say it their fault,for not helping themselves,but you could field a handy team of Riff players that have been poached.
It was 3 or 4 years ago they literally lost 1/2 their side.
Send Mack Mason,Mackean Jones etc etc to play out there for their Tahs money.
Yeah the south west is important,but no more so than the west.
It's much easier to give them a hand up,than to start from ground zero.

Because the South West is the major growth corridor in the city. There's opportunity to grow with it. I'm not dismissing the West. Just re-orientating under which banner it will fall. As for the club. I have only suggested a greenfield club. They could take an existing club in which to build around.

 

[Dave Beat]

Its an interesting one.
There was a large number of people wanting the Western Force to stay a float because of rugby.
I also think there would be a number of people hoping rugby could develop and grow in Western Sydney.
It would be great seeing them get stronger and survive.

But the results over a significant period don't justify them staying, and I cant think of a fair development program that would guarantee results.

Drummoyne lasted i think 3 years, under the promotion / relagation system and they had some players coming through but just weren't given enough time.

A tuff call is going to have to be made, and unless some one can create an amazing sustainable quick change - it is not good to keep these scores happening. That being said I'm not sure that a bye is much better - so;

Are they retained and told to create a different structure for next year???
Woods have a georgraphical change coming up given the sale of TG.
Whats wrong with Penrith having a geographical change / merge to another area in the west??

I think 12 teams is an attractive number,
11 just wont work.
10 is a move in the wrong direction (in my eyes), as I think this year there are 9 teams that could al worry each other.

 

[Quick Hands]

Mate, they are no fucking chance without a big hand from HQ.
If HQ are prepared to do that,then why not with the Riff?

It's easy to say it their fault,for not helping themselves,but you could field a handy team of Riff players that have been poached.
It was 3 or 4 years ago they literally lost 1/2 their side.
Send Mack Mason,Mackean Jones etc etc to play out there for their Tahs money.
Yeah the south west is important,but no more so than the west.
It's much easier to give them a hand up,than to start from ground zero.

Unfortunately HQ have shown no sign in the last decade (and probably the last 15 years) that they have any real desire to provide meaningful and sustained assistance to Penrith. When they did (late 90s to early 00s) there were positive signs. JON pulled the funding, NSW went broke and that was all she wrote.

My gut feeling is that Penrith are unsalvageable. Which is incredibly sad and a reflection on the ARU and NSWRU who have both sat back and watch this unfold and essentially done nothing, while wasting millions elsewhere. I feel very sorry for the Penrith club, who have been badly let down in all of this.

 

[Quick Hands]

If they were to bring in another club hopefully they look at the South-West of the city. Let Eastwood have the North West and Parramatta everywhere in between the the two. It may need to be essentially a greenfields club but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Place it in a high growth area. Work to not only get it up and running but also to help build the necessary infrastructure below it in order to to feed into it. A very much untapped region of the city.

As you know, I've always advocted for the Cambelltown/Macarthur area to be included in rugby at the highest level. Broadly speaking I think you are right, but without significant and sustained support from NSWRU/RA I think we'd get similar results from what we've seen at Penrith.

To me, doing it badly is worse than not doing it at all. Penrith have gone from being a highly competitive club in firstly Sydney second division and then in Kentwell Cup when the two merged, to a basket case in Shute Shield 20 years. Sadly, it's a metaphor for rugby in Australia.

Nepean (“Emus”) [est. 1965]
Name changed to Penrith(from 1981)
Colours:Brown & Gold (1966-1976);
White, Brown & Gold (1977-1991);
Black, Red & Green (1992)
Home Grounds: Weir Road, Penrith (1966-1971);
Emu Plains Oval No.2 (1971-1978);
Nepean Rugby Park, North Penrith (from 1979 to present)
Years in 1st Division: (as Penrith) 1995 to present
Years in 2nd Division: (as Nepean) 1966-1980, (as Penrith) 1984-1992
Years in 3rd Division: (as Penrith) 1981-1983

• The club was formed in 1965 (as Nepean).
• Joined the new Second Division in 1966.
• It was renamed Penrith in 1981 when relegated to Third Division.
• Penrith went to Suburban RU when Second Division was closed down after 1992.
• Penrith was added to the (First Division) Premier Rugby competition in 1995.

 

[wamberal]

It is also a fact that there have been huge demographic changes in the Greater Sydney area.



This is not a metaphor. Just have a look at the student populations of the high schools that used to be rugby strongholds. It is no metaphor when Sydney High cannot field a competitive rugby team. It is just a fact. The student body is just not interested in competitive sport of any kind, let alone rugby.


Before blaming the administrators for everything that has weakened our game, have a walk around Eastwood, or Chatswood. How many rugby supporters will you see?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

What's going on at Coogee? Warringah put 40 on them yesterday and last week they lost by 25 to Gordon (at Coogee Oval no less). Easts then beat Gordon 52-0 yesterday.

Randwick beat Gordon comfortably in Round 1. So they are 1 win and a loss to the defending premiers. Might be a bit early for an enquiry.


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[The Honey Badger]

I know it would be the bye for this year , but would they look at bringing a side in for future years

Go back to the roots.

A Canberra or Newcastle based club.

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[The Honey Badger]

Merge Parramatta and Penrith to the Western Sydney 2 blue Emus, and play from both locations. Not ideal but it keeps some sort of presence

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[WorkingClassRugger]

It is also a fact that there have been huge demographic changes in the Greater Sydney area.



This is not a metaphor. Just have a look at the student populations of the high schools that used to be rugby strongholds. It is no metaphor when Sydney High cannot field a competitive rugby team. It is just a fact. The student body is just not interested in competitive sport of any kind, let alone rugby.


Before blaming the administrators for everything that has weakened our game, have a walk around Eastwood, or Chatswood. How many rugby supporters will you see?

Yeah, sorry I don't buy it. I'm not denying the changing demographics in those areas but using them as an excuse just wreaks to me. You have to roll with the changes. There's no reason why you couldn't look to engage these growing communities. Rugby is always billed as a game for all shapes and sizes not one that can only be played by White guys and Pacific Islanders.

You have to decide what you want. A game open to everyone with growing participation or an exclusive little cultural enclave to self absorbed to look beyond their rigid pov to actually accept and adapt their environments.

 

[Quick Hands]

Randwick beat Gordon comfortably in Round 1. So they are 1 win and a loss to the defending premiers. Might be a bit early for an enquiry.


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My apologies, I misread the round 1 result.

 

[Quick Hands]

It is also a fact that there have been huge demographic changes in the Greater Sydney area.



This is not a metaphor. Just have a look at the student populations of the high schools that used to be rugby strongholds. It is no metaphor when Sydney High cannot field a competitive rugby team. It is just a fact. The student body is just not interested in competitive sport of any kind, let alone rugby.


Before blaming the administrators for everything that has weakened our game, have a walk around Eastwood, or Chatswood. How many rugby supporters will you see?

But what about the areas to which the old rugby demographic moved? That's where the failure has been.

And by the way, there's no particular reason why different cultural groups don't play rugby. What efforts have been made to engage them?

I say this, because where my son goes to school there are boys of Japanese, Chinese, middle-eastern, mediterranean and sub-contental heritage all playing rugby - and quite a few in the A or B teams. The difference being that at school there has been some effort to engage them and they play with their mates of all different backgrounds.

I suspect that many older adminstrators have simply looked at the changing demographic, shrugged their shoulders and said "they don't play rugby" and not even bothered.

Even now, the demographic of those running the game bears no resemblance to the demographic of the participants.

 

[Pfitzy]

Merge Parramatta and Penrith to the Western Sydney 2 blue Emus, and play from both locations. Not ideal but it keeps some sort of presence

Two Blues would not be up for that I don't think, as they're trying to get that engagement they need around the heart of Sydney.

Hard to see how how Penrith are improving. Head coaches included Wallabies recently, but they're gone. Some impressive juniors have come out of the area, but they're always subject to moving east when the money is right. Also have guys who are doing it for a laugh or to play with their mates.

So what drives people to stick around? If the goal starts at "win a game this season" its pretty hard to pick up and keep going after conceding a few tons before that happens.

 

[meatpie]

Two Blues would not be up for that I don't think, as they're trying to get that engagement they need around the heart of Sydney.

Hard to see how how Penrith are improving. Head coaches included Wallabies recently, but they're gone. Some impressive juniors have come out of the area, but they're always subject to moving east when the money is right. Also have guys who are doing it for a laugh or to play with their mates.

So what drives people to stick around? If the goal starts at "win a game this season" its pretty hard to pick up and keep going after conceding a few tons before that happens.

The emus had really improved last year under Hux. The bizarre off season drama that saw him turfed has seen the club go from one giant leap forward in 2017 to 5 steps back in 2018. People will talk about "you don't know the true story" etc etc but to me the true story is improvement on the field (That was certainly achieved last year.....not so much this year). I was really looking forward to seeing Hux build from last year.

 

[2bluesfan]

I think this year there are 9 teams that could all worry each other.

Dave, at this stage of the season I think it's too early to be writing off Uni and Randwick

 

[John S]

The emus had really improved last year under Hux. The bizarre off season drama that saw him turfed has seen the club go from one giant leap forward in 2017 to 5 steps back in 2018. People will talk about "you don't know the true story" etc etc but to me the true story is improvement on the field (That was certainly achieved last year...not so much this year). I was really looking forward to seeing Hux build from last year.

Yep, I was liking how Penrith improved last year on the field. I was looking forward to seeing Hux build on last year. Going to be another long season I think.