Shute Shield 2013

[Dave Beat]

As Uni have no one in the test side we can assume they will be at full strength on Saturday

Interesting the strongest national club side can't field a player in the National Team (Even Uni 2nds fields Super players).
Back when it was Randwick at the top there were a number of Wicks in the National Team.

 

[fatprop]

Interesting the strongest national club side can't field a player in the National Team (Even Uni 2nds fields Super players).
Back when it was Randwick at the top there were a number of Wicks in the National Team.

New coach, new ideas, so far the same outcomes.

Actually I am wrong, Folau is a purported Uni player despite never playing for them

 

[wamberal]

Interesting the strongest national club side can't field a player in the National Team (Even Uni 2nds fields Super players).

My theory is that they are good at getting the most out of mediocre players. I believe that we need to find potentially great players, some of whom come from tough backgrounds, and learn how to win against the odds.

The best Test match performers - or many of them - don't swan through life making every little post a little winner, on the back of artificial advantages, and bolstered by privilege. They learn how to fight for everything. Look at the Keewees.

 

[Zander]

Ben McCalman should be there instead of Schatz.

 

[Gibbo]

Maybe Uni are just very good at recruiting club/super XV level players so they can be available at the right time and not lose them to national duties.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4

 

[the coach]

Uni 1st and 2nd teams for Saturday v Souths:

1. Jeremy Tilse 1. Alasdair King
2. Tolu Latu 2. James Willan
3. Paddy Ryan 3. Sam Talakai
4. Tom Boidin 4. Tom Heslop
5. Liam Winton 5. Byron Hodge
6. David Dennis 6. Benn Melrose (c)
7. David Hickey 7. Stuart Goodman
8. Tim Davidson (c) 8. Hugo Dessens
9. Nick Phipps 9. Richard Draper
10. Stefano Hunt 10. Stuart Dunbar
11. Greg Jeloudev 11. Alex Rokobaro
12. Tom Carter 12. James McMahon
13. Tom English 13. James Dargaville
14. Lachlan Mitchell 14. Fetuli Talanoa
15. Tom Kingston 15. Nathan Trist

 

[Zander]

Oh no they're without Ben McCalman and Bernard Foley..

 

[Late Starter]

My theory is that they are good at getting the most out of mediocre players. I believe that we need to find potentially great players, some of whom come from tough backgrounds, and learn how to win against the odds.

The best Test match performers - or many of them - don't swan through life making every little post a little winner, on the back of artificial advantages, and bolstered by privilege. They learn how to fight for everything. Look at the Keewees.

You're right; those kind of players don't know how to fight. There's no way a team full of those players could come back from say 17-0 down in a finals game at a hostile venue and win the match.

 

[The Galah]

You're right; those kind of players don't know how to fight. There's no way a team full of those players could come back from say 17-0 down in a finals game at a hostile venue and win the match.

The discussion seems with respect to be about stepping up from Soups and showing ticker at test level not returning to SS and the heaving cauldron that is the Manly village green

 

[Late Starter]

The discussion seems with respect to be about stepping up from Soups and showing ticker at test level not returning to SS and the heaving cauldron that is the Manly village green

Agreed. But the suggestion from the IP was that certain players are unable to step up to test level because they had "swanned through life" without having to fight for anything. Obviously that's not the case.

 

[Late Starter]

Great to see Nick Cummins getting a crack for the Wallabies this weekend. I think he should have been there since the start of the TRC.

Tough break for Souths losing him for this weekend though.

 

[the coach]

Oh no they're without Ben McCalman and Bernard Foley..

Were they in the 30 man Wobbly squad?
They might be released back to Uni if that was the case now that the team has been named.

 

[the coach]

Agreed. But the suggestion from the IP was that certain players are unable to step up to test level because they had "swanned through life" without having to fight for anything. Obviously that's not the case.

Don't take this the wrong way I'm not having a go at Uni, I'm just curious, but who was the last player to come through Uni colts and enjoy a lengthy test career? Phil Waugh was in-and-out and guys like Dave Dennis and McCalman have played a few games, but I'm trying to think of someone who was a regular member of the team over the last several years, not counting guys like Vickerman, Barnes, Burgess etc who didn't come through the colts. Can you help LS?

 

[Done that]

Some people are questioning the quality of the Uni players.
If they are as ordinary as some suggest,then there should be no difficulty beating them this or next week.
Ultimately this current competition is about the best team Uni can put on the field versus the best team their
opposition can provide.
Some might not like them but that's the reality.

 

[Late Starter]

Don't take this the wrong way I'm not having a go at Uni, I'm just curious, but who was the last player to come through Uni colts and enjoy a lengthy test career? Phil Waugh was in-and-out and guys like Dave Dennis and McCalman have played a few games, but I'm trying to think of someone who was a regular member of the team over the last several years, not counting guys like Vickerman, Barnes, Burgess etc who didn't come through the colts. Can you help LS?

Luke Burgess was a Uni colt. He moved to Easts when he signed for the Brumbies as he was not playing first grade at Uni. He came back to Uni when he signed with the Tahs.

I'm curious about it too, and I mentioned it earlier in the this thread. I don't think there's necessarily a 'reason' for it but I also don't think there should be. At the end of the day, Uni are still operating at club level. While they are very good at developing players from school leavers to first graders and then on to Super level for some, I think the step up from Super rugby to Test rugby is out of their hands. The development of players from Super to Test level is in the hands of their professional side and not their club side.

Perhaps it shows Uni don't have a monopoly on the young talent in Australia like some people believe, and that clearly there are other, possibly better pathways to the national side

 

[Zander]

FWIW, I believe Uni could win the ITM Cup.

 

[jb23]

Go Dunbar in Uni 2nds!! What a legend

 

[It is what it is]

Luke Burgess was a Uni colt. He moved to Easts when he signed for the Brumbies as he was not playing first grade at Uni. He came back to Uni when he signed with the Tahs.

I'm curious about it too, and I mentioned it earlier in the this thread. I don't think there's necessarily a 'reason' for it but I also don't think there should be. At the end of the day, Uni are still operating at club level. While they are very good at developing players from school leavers to first graders and then on to Super level for some, I think the step up from Super rugby to Test rugby is out of their hands. The development of players from Super to Test level is in the hands of their professional side and not their club side.

Perhaps it shows Uni don't have a monopoly on the young talent in Australia like some people believe, and that clearly there are other, possibly better pathways to the national side

Ever think it may come down to coaching too?
Randwick were used as a benchmark earlier in this thread.
Their coaching staff have consistently gone on to coach successfully at much higher levels over many years. Think Dwyer, Eddie Jones, Cheika, McKenzie, Ella, Knox, Jim McKay. Alan Gaffney, Ian Kennedy etc

 

[I like to watch]

Some people are questioning the quality of the Uni players.
If they are as ordinary as some suggest,then there should be no difficulty beating them this or next week.
Ultimately this current competition is about the best team Uni can put on the field versus the best team their
opposition can provide.
Some might not like them but that's the reality.

A team consisting almost totally of full time professionals,only winning the game after the bell,over predominantly a part timers team.Is not a ringing endorsement of the quality of the professionals.
But as you say,the comp is actually about how much better one teams ring ins are better than the other teams ring ins.

 

[the coach]

Luke Burgess was a Uni colt. He moved to Easts when he signed for the Brumbies as he was not playing first grade at Uni. He came back to Uni when he signed with the Tahs.

I'm curious about it too, and I mentioned it earlier in the this thread. I don't think there's necessarily a 'reason' for it but I also don't think there should be. At the end of the day, Uni are still operating at club level. While they are very good at developing players from school leavers to first graders and then on to Super level for some, I think the step up from Super rugby to Test rugby is out of their hands. The development of players from Super to Test level is in the hands of their professional side and not their club side.

Perhaps it shows Uni don't have a monopoly on the young talent in Australia like some people believe, and that clearly there are other, possibly better pathways to the national side

Just noticed the Uni website list the Wallbies who have come through Uni Colts (13 of them since 1984):

Farr-Jones 63
Fitzsimons 7
Egerton 9
Lyons 44
Waugh 79
Campbell 4
Kanaar 1
Burgess 37
Mumm 33
Dennis 15
McCalman 22
Phipps 14
McCutcheon listed but I don't think he's played a test

Great website!