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Shute Shield 2012

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Slash

Bill Watson (15)
Does the money go to the district club or the actual club that developed the player? Does St. Ives get the cash or Gordon for a St Ives junior? Does Blacktown collect the cheque or Parramatta? both St Ives and Blacktown have senior clubs playing in the subbies.

My understanding is its club as there is not a junior rep set up like there is in rugby. However, in rugby you could do both. Say 60% goes to junior club, 40% to district.......or whatever.

This way, everyone gets a drink out of it
 

Knuckles

Ted Thorn (20)
Back to player movements.............Jeremy Su'a has joined Eastwood. It's a shrewd recruitment by John Manenti, as the Woods will not see anything of Nic White.
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
I agree. There should be serious consideration given by the rule makers on the transfer fee issue. As Coxy mentioned above, in soccer, the whole chain is fed. Same in AFL. If a player gets all the way to AFL, his junior club and his first senior club get paid a fee for making the AFL. And if the player plays 20 AFL games, the junior club can get up to 80K from the AFL as reward.

Applying something similar to rugby...........wouldn't the make up of the competition change dramatically in a few short years if the clubs who develop junior talent such as Gordon, Warringah and Parramatta were actually financially compensated for the success of the kids from within their district achieved. Examples being Stirling Mortlock from Gordon, Phil Waugh from Warringah and TPN or Sam Wykes from Parramatta..........I'm sure every district could list atleast half a dozen such names as a minimum............

Well, every District except Uni, Wests, Easts, Randwick anyway!!!!
They have a long history of developing squat........[/QUOTE]

Hows that saying go again, say nothing and people might think you're a fool - say something and you just confirm their thoughts!

If you did some due diligence you might note that there have been many ex Wests juniors turn up at other clubs just like next year with Cummins and Windon going to other clubs.

Other notables over the years have included Michael Foley, Bill Young, Tony Daley and numerous others. Put your brain in gear before you shove your mouth into overdrive with dribble.
 

lily

Vay Wilson (31)
Drivel. If you are going to bag someone at least have the proper word in use.
This may be being a bit harsh but I blame Yr 10 School Certificate History marking. OMG some are so stupid.
 

Slash

Bill Watson (15)
Well, every District except Uni, Wests, Easts, Randwick anyway!!!!
They have a long history of developing squat........

Hows that saying go again, say nothing and people might think you're a fool - say something and you just confirm their thoughts!

If you did some due diligence you might note that there have been many ex Wests juniors turn up at other clubs just like next year with Cummins and Windon going to other clubs.

Other notables over the years have included Michael Foley, Bill Young, Tony Daley and numerous others. Put your brain in gear before you shove your mouth into overdrive with dribble.[/QUOTE]

I didnt know Hills Sports High and St Pats Strathfield were Wests junior development clubs...........Same as Joeys where Bill Young went............

I'm talking about Wests only having 1 junior club for years, doing NOTHING to grow the number clubs within the district (let's face it, not every kid goes to private school) and then just sitting back and poaching from baulkaum hills, merrylands, rooty hill, blacktown, beecroft, hillview etc..........

You West Harbour blokes are so pathetic when questioned. Here's one for you, you blokes made a 100K profit in 2010, yet failed to make the semi's in 09,10,11 with arguably the second best player roster in the comp (certainly in 09 and 10, not so much in 11) in 1st grade. From all reports 2011 was just a political nightmare. Has anyone within the club actually asked why the players are leaving by the dozen????????

Cummins, Su'a, Afualo, Ah Lam, Paurini, Windon, Ayoub, Hunkin, Salanoa, Seavula...................the list goes on and on
 

lily

Vay Wilson (31)
Drivel is a word and a phrase is a sequence of words. Drivel means talking stupidly as a noun or dribbling as a verb. What is putting your mouth into overdrive with dribble mean? I look forward to another English lesson. I would have thought it would be perfectly clear that I was commenting on the last word of the phrase.
 
T

Tahboy

Guest
Knuckles just for your info 50% of the players who regularly play in the top 4 grades have come through there colts system
Not all of those are locals but how many locals play in other clubs 4 grades?
 

minorbird

Tom Lawton (22)
Drivel is a word and a phrase is a sequence of words. Drivel means talking stupidly as a noun or dribbling as a verb. What is putting your mouth into overdrive with dribble mean? I look forward to another English lesson. I would have thought it would be perfectly clear that I was commenting on the last word of the phrase.

Woops! Looks like I need a comprehension lesson. Moving on...
 
K

Keithy

Guest
Slash would this system have to include the schools? Shore would argue that Phil Waugh development was due to time at school.
I doubt a system like this would force Uni to develop juniors. If Uni need cash they could reduce their full time staff and save what other clubs get from the junior grant system propsed here.
 
B

Balcknred

Guest
make it simple you play for the district you live in ... You wanna play for another club then move to their area , a pretty simple way of sorting Out who plays where , I still lay the blame on new rugby for destroying Shute shield !
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
make it simple you play for the district you live in ... You wanna play for another club then move to their area , a pretty simple way of sorting Out who plays where , I still lay the blame on new rugby for destroying Shute shield !

Aaaaah, a blast from the past. That used to be the rule, until the end of the fifties, or thereabouts.


Of course, it was easy to get around the rule, all it took was a fake address in the district that you wanted to play for, and that was easily done. That is the reason that the rule was abolished. It used to apply in league too, once upon a time.
 
K

Keithy

Guest
I was told last week that the decision on the 16 round competion has been delayed again. Does anyone know when the SRU will decide on the 2012 comp?
 

lincoln

Bob Loudon (25)
Slash would this system have to include the schools? Shore would argue that Phil Waugh development was due to time at school.
I doubt a system like this would force Uni to develop juniors. If Uni need cash they could reduce their full time staff and save what other clubs get from the junior grant system propsed here.
Having observed Shore's rugby programme and been involved with a village club I would argue that Phil Waugh's development was more likely due to his club - happy to be corrected. Shore has along with Iggies the biggest pool of non-imported talent but cannot seem to develop. Eg A thirds prop playing 1st grade wing for a TNS club 3 years after leaving school. :)
 
S

skip

Guest
Talking about players development being due to clubs or school, what about players who have developed as a direct result of the ARU Pathway from NTS or NGS. Would you still say those respective players clubs and schools deserve additionally funding due to those players success despite them not being responsible for their success
 

lily

Vay Wilson (31)
If a parent takes his kid to the park from a very early age and works on his fundamental's does he get the money? Or how about the athletic child who does well in all sports and has natural talent? Shouldn't he get the money. Let's be serious guy's. Alot of player's will be upskilled by good coaching in their jnr years but let's not forget that you can go to any under 7 on a Saturday morning in league or a sunday morning in rugby and pick kids who have a natural feel for the game. It's called instinct.
 

latrell247

Chris McKivat (8)
This is how well the Waratahs are dispersed in the Shute Shield Competition

Manly: Wycliff Palu / Greg Paterson / Tevita Metuisela

Sydney Uni: Tom Carter /Berrick Barnes /Bernard Foley /Dan Halangahu /Tom Kingston /Pat McCutcheon /Dean Mumm /Pat Ryan /Jeremy Tilse /Dave Dennis /Dan Vickerman /Nathan Trist

Randwick: Rocky Elsom /Sekope Kepu /Drew Mitchell /Afa Pakalani /Lotu Taukeiaho

Eastern Suburbs: Brendan McKibbin

Eastwood: Damien Fitzpatrick / Chris Alcock / Ben Robinson / Lachie Turner

Southern Districts: Kane Douglas /Brackin Karuiria Henry /Rob Horne /Sitaleki Timani /John Ulugia /Grayson Hart /Lopeti Timani

Parramatta: Tatafu Polota Nau

Northern Suburbs: Adam Ashley Cooper

Penrith: Nil

Gordon: Nil

Warringah: Nil

West Harbour: Nil
 

Andrew B Cox

Sydney Middleton (9)
Hows that saying go again, say nothing and people might think you're a fool - say something and you just confirm their thoughts!

If you did some due diligence you might note that there have been many ex Wests juniors turn up at other clubs just like next year with Cummins and Windon going to other clubs.

Other notables over the years have included Michael Foley, Bill Young, Tony Daley and numerous others. Put your brain in gear before you shove your mouth into overdrive with dribble.

I didnt know Hills Sports High and St Pats Strathfield were Wests junior development clubs...........Same as Joeys where Bill Young went............

I'm talking about Wests only having 1 junior club for years, doing NOTHING to grow the number clubs within the district (let's face it, not every kid goes to private school) and then just sitting back and poaching from baulkaum hills, merrylands, rooty hill, blacktown, beecroft, hillview etc..........

You West Harbour blokes are so pathetic when questioned. Here's one for you, you blokes made a 100K profit in 2010, yet failed to make the semi's in 09,10,11 with arguably the second best player roster in the comp (certainly in 09 and 10, not so much in 11) in 1st grade. From all reports 2011 was just a political nightmare. Has anyone within the club actually asked why the players are leaving by the dozen????????

Cummins, Su'a, Afualo, Ah Lam, Paurini, Windon, Ayoub, Hunkin, Salanoa, Seavula...................the list goes on and on[/QUOTE]

While you make some valid points Slash, you must admit that the West Harbour Colts system has brought a number of players through to professional level, and have been successful for decades. Right back in the 80's, Bob Lamaro took them back to back in 1sts Colts. In 1994, my first year of coaching, I had Eastwood Colts with Steve Best and we played Wests in the GF. Their team under Dave Treweek and John Lomax were a game short of the GF and supplied 9 first graders to West Harbour this year. Given they draw from a solitary junior club and a small number of rugby schools, they do punch above their weight.

On the club's troubles, the biggest problem is that as they are perennially 'the best of a bad bunch', and with a good colts system, they are a prime target for poaching. Can you name a player in Sydney who has moved from a top 4 club to a bottom 4 club? The strong tend to feed on the weak. The only reason one would go to a struggling club is probably money, and ironically, they're precisely the kind of player Wests don't need. The other thing is that the Wests area is a massively changing demographic. The area north of Parramatta Road is rapidly becoming Rugby Heartland- with kids everywhere. This same area closed Drummoyne Boys HS 25 years ago due to lack of enrollments. An ageing area is now young again and junior clubs are popping up everywhere. Balmain have just started and I'm sure more will come. The polynesian community that centred around Ashfield in the '80s has moved west, but stayed connected to the club, and that's why they draw from Parra and Penrith juniors.

The club's problems have more to do with natural law and rapidly changing demographics than poor management.
 

Slash

Bill Watson (15)
Knuckles just for your info 50% of the players who regularly play in the top 4 grades have come through there colts system
Not all of those are locals but how many locals play in other clubs 4 grades?

And 50% haven't......not a very good numerical example
 

Slash

Bill Watson (15)
Slash would this system have to include the schools? Shore would argue that Phil Waugh development was due to time at school.
I doubt a system like this would force Uni to develop juniors. If Uni need cash they could reduce their full time staff and save what other clubs get from the junior grant system propsed here.

I think it should involve schools yes. And the schools allocated to the clubs should be based geographically.......Shore would be Norths and certainly not Uni. Uni would get Newington (they do already). Parra would get Kings. Eastwood would get Joeys. Gordon = Riverview etc. as examples only of course. It would get curly on which area scots/waverley/grammar/cranbrook go to and wests,souths,penrith would need to be allocated a strong rugby school. But it could work.
 
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