Shute Shield 2012

[latrell247]

I noticed on the brumbies website that all act contracted players will only be allowed to play club in the canberra john dent competition. I assume some clubs in the shute shield will be unhappy with that

 

[Slim 293]

I noticed on the brumbies website that all act contracted players will only be allowed to play club in the canberra john dent competition. I assume some clubs in the shute shield will be unhappy with that

And I say to them: too bad...

 

[Upright]

I noticed on the brumbies website that all act contracted players will only be allowed to play club in the canberra john dent competition. I assume some clubs in the shute shield will be unhappy with that

I saw that White had established that rule and good on him for doing it. Those guys in the Brumbies squad need to see themselves as part of the Canberra seen not just interlopers. It is a pity no NSW coach has been interested or broad minded enough to enhance the Shute Shield by distributing players across the clubs in such a fashion. In saying that with the Super 15 players out of action for nearly the whole of the domestic club season i suspect it will only impact on the reserve (out of top 23) players, but it is a good idea and good on White for implementing it - maybe he actually cares about rugby as a whole!

 

[Tahboy]

What incentive is there for a club to cop the cost of attracting a quality schoolboy or a local junior and the costs incurred and then have the Brumbies not let that player play for his club.
So once a player joins the Brumbies his club who helped him get to the required level then has no access to the player?
So a good player from the country comes to a Sydney club and the club goes through the hard yards of sourcing accomodation and costs finding a job etc etc and he gets a deal with the Brumbies and the Royals get all the advantages without the costs etc
Doesn't seem right to me

 

[Empire]

At the end of the day, they are signing as Brumbies. It's not a wild notion that if they commit to a super 15 side that they play within that super 15 sides area of influence.

It certainly doesn't help ACT rugby and by extension the Brumbies long term development and expansion of Rugby in its area by having every player in the academy go and play in a competition over which they have limited (if any) input.

The Shute shield will cope, and hopefully if other s15 sides develop their local scene and close the gap between the states, we may see our third tier eventuate.

 

[Tahboy]

Empire go and get 10k out of your bank account and tear it up and say oh well doesn't matter
How about a fee get paid to the club that finds and Develops that player or everytime that player play S15 the club gets say $200.00
Brumbies don't have there players they have other clubs players and why should Sydney or Brisbane clubs lose access to THERE locals or juniors or players they got off there arse to find and invest there resources to improve and then lose to prop up comps in Canberra, Perth or Melbourne. Why don't those states clubs do the work and invest there money and develop young players instead of sponge of the efforts of Brisbane or Sydney clubs.

 

[Empire]

As a student, a bank account with $10,000 would be great. However, that's irrelevant.

Perhaps there is an argument for compensation (transfer fees) to be paid, but remember it's the players that want to move onto bigger and better things. If those bigger and better things come with a requirement to play within that clubs area of influence, then so be it.

 

[Slim 293]

Empire go and get 10k out of your bank account and tear it up and say oh well doesn't matter
How about a fee get paid to the club that finds and Develops that player or everytime that player play S15 the club gets say $200.00
Brumbies don't have there players they have other clubs players and why should Sydney or Brisbane clubs lose access to THERE locals or juniors or players they got off there arse to find and invest there resources to improve and then lose to prop up comps in Canberra, Perth or Melbourne. Why don't those states clubs do the work and invest there money and develop young players instead of sponge of the efforts of Brisbane or Sydney clubs.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...

You're clearly being ironic... right?

How many ACT juniors been picked up by the Sydney clubs?

A few years ago Randwick was filled with Canberra juniors, and players that the Brumbies' Academy had brought in at a young age to Canberra, played club rugby in the John I Dent Cup and then moved onto the Shute Shield.

How many other players have been developed interstate and then poached by Sydney clubs?

This is only going to not only strengthen the Canberra competition, but make room for more young and upcoming Sydney players to rise through the ranks.

 

[Slim 293]

As a student, a bank account with $10,000 would be great. However, that's irrelevant.

Perhaps there is an argument for compensation (transfer fees) to be paid, but remember it's the players that want to move onto bigger and better things. If those bigger and better things come with a requirement to play within that clubs area of influence, then so be it.

I don't recall any of the Sydney clubs financially compensating Canberra clubs for poaching their players?

So once again I say: too bad..

 

[Tahboy]

Those players had a choice of staying or playing elsewhere and some chose to play elsewhere for the better rugby and to push for end of year wallaby tour as robbie deans said only players who were playing in Sydney or Brisbane would be considered. Would Mark Chisolm made the tour a few years ago if he hadn't had a good season with randwick and a number of players were returning to there clubs.
It's all irrevelant as the decision has been made.

 

[Lee Grant]

Things change: let's see how it works. I'll be sorry to lose Pat McCabe at the Rats - and Tim Lane, the coach of Manly, must be on his 10th set of worry beads by now, but the Shute Shield has poached more from the ACT in the past than they will lose.

Somehow the Shute Shield will chug along.

 

[Andrew B Cox]

I quite like the idea of trailing fees every time a player moves. It rewards clubs and schools for developing talent. It should, however not stop at Shute Shield Clubs. A player like Francis Fainifo, for example, was picked for the Brumbies from NSW Country, who in turn, picked him from New England. He also played for Tuggeranong before donning the Myrtle Green of Randwick. Surely Randwick would need to compensate each club that developed him before he came to them?

Someone mentioned to me the other day that every time Harry Kewell picks up another contract, a cheque arrives at the old Johnny Warren Soccer Academy out near Richmond.

Every time a player moves, the whole chain is fed.

 

[truckandtrailor]

I can understand that clubs feel aggrieved when a star player leaves there team..... but at the end of the day it is the players choice to move to another club. Majority of these players want to make a career from rugby and will move to help support that. At the moment the Shute Shield is the strongest club rugby competition in the country and gets the most exposure. So with careers in mind, players will always look to play where they will recieve the best opportunity to progress, I don't think it is fair to prevent that. It is no secret that Robbie Deans regularly watches Shute Shield matches and occasionaly finds something he likes... isn't that right Dave Dennis.

 

[Keithy]

Hard to compare a multi-million $ football contract with a player who is on a Super rugby contract. The top Super contract is around $350K the bottom is around $50k even less for rookies. Maybe the cash comes from Harry himself. Maybe the Sydney clubs should approach the players for a donation.

 

[T.Rugby]

I saw that White had established that rule and good on him for doing it. Those guys in the Brumbies squad need to see themselves as part of the Canberra seen not just interlopers. It is a pity no NSW coach has been interested or broad minded enough to enhance the Shute Shield by distributing players across the clubs in such a fashion. In saying that with the Super 15 players out of action for nearly the whole of the domestic club season i suspect it will only impact on the reserve (out of top 23) players, but it is a good idea and good on White for implementing it - maybe he actually cares about rugby as a whole!

Yeah I totally agree Upright, would be fantastic to see the waratahs main squad spread out over the shute shield teams. at least it would lay to rest any worries about unfairness of certain teams having too many Super Rugby players. And as Jake White said, even if the players aren't playing much footy for that club, they would be able to lend a hand at trainings, presentations, anything that the club needed.

Just out of interest, do most of the waratahs players live in coogee? this would make it difficult to spread out the talent i suppose, but like jake white you could assign players who are studying at sydney uni to sydney uni. likewise send players who grew up out penrith/parramatta/warringah or have parents out there to those clubs ect. The Shute shield would definetly be better for it, and I think more people would be interested in the shute shield if there was a more even distribution, i know i certainly would.

Also, have the majority of players who play for the rebels and the force similarly been assigned to their local comps?

 

[Slash]

I quite like the idea of trailing fees every time a player moves. It rewards clubs and schools for developing talent. It should, however not stop at Shute Shield Clubs. A player like Francis Fainifo, for example, was picked for the Brumbies from NSW Country, who in turn, picked him from New England. He also played for Tuggeranong before donning the Myrtle Green of Randwick. Surely Randwick would need to compensate each club that developed him before he came to them?

Someone mentioned to me the other day that every time Harry Kewell picks up another contract, a cheque arrives at the old Johnny Warren Soccer Academy out near Richmond.

Every time a player moves, the whole chain is fed.[/QUOTE]

I agree. There should be serious consideration given by the rule makers on the transfer fee issue. As Coxy mentioned above, in soccer, the whole chain is fed. Same in AFL. If a player gets all the way to AFL, his junior club and his first senior club get paid a fee for making the AFL. And if the player plays 20 AFL games, the junior club can get up to 80K from the AFL as reward.

Applying something similar to rugby...........wouldn't the make up of the competition change dramatically in a few short years if the clubs who develop junior talent such as Gordon, Warringah and Parramatta were actually financially compensated for the success of the kids from within their district achieved. Examples being Stirling Mortlock from Gordon, Phil Waugh from Warringah and TPN or Sam Wykes from Parramatta..........I'm sure every district could list atleast half a dozen such names as a minimum............

 

[Knuckles]

I agree. There should be serious consideration given by the rule makers on the transfer fee issue. As Coxy mentioned above, in soccer, the whole chain is fed. Same in AFL. If a player gets all the way to AFL, his junior club and his first senior club get paid a fee for making the AFL. And if the player plays 20 AFL games, the junior club can get up to 80K from the AFL as reward.

Applying something similar to rugby...........wouldn't the make up of the competition change dramatically in a few short years if the clubs who develop junior talent such as Gordon, Warringah and Parramatta were actually financially compensated for the success of the kids from within their district achieved. Examples being Stirling Mortlock from Gordon, Phil Waugh from Warringah and TPN or Sam Wykes from Parramatta..........I'm sure every district could list atleast half a dozen such names as a minimum............[/QUOTE]

Well, every District except Uni, Wests, Easts, Randwick anyway!!!!
They have a long history of developing squat........

 

[Keithy]

Does the money go to the district club or the actual club that developed the player? Does St. Ives get the cash or Gordon for a St Ives junior? Does Blacktown collect the cheque or Parramatta? both St Ives and Blacktown have senior clubs playing in the subbies.

 

[Empire]

The economics would be interesting, but I think in reality the code is too poor to begin even thinking along those lines and as many here would attest, the code is very top heavy, so I don't think a transfer fee/compensation package is ever likely.

Nice to dream, we hypothetically may have recieved a nice sum for one G. Gregan and M. Giteau...

I'll be interested to see what the wash up of this whole situation is when we all come around to discussing Shute Shield 2013 in a years time.

 

[Slash]

The economics would be interesting, but I think in reality the code is too poor to begin even thinking along those lines and as many here would attest, the code is very top heavy, so I don't think a transfer fee/compensation package is ever likely.

Nice to dream, we hypothetically may have recieved a nice sum for one G. Gregan and M. Giteau...

I'll be interested to see what the wash up of this whole situation is when we all come around to discussing Shute Shield 2013 in a years time.

It's definitely top heavy....and that is the perfect reason why there should be transfer fees. I do not believe for one second that the ARU are broke. When a business can pay its CEO a million a year, create a new job for its 2IC, and pay him 700K a year, it's clear they are not short of funds. Its where they allocate the $$ that is the key.

RUPA has the ARU bent over and the agreement in place from tv money/sponsorship etc is that a large percentage of that income should be put away to pay the professional players. This is not unusual but the allocation of the money is the issue.

How would I address it?

When a player signs a Super Rugby/ARU contract, the franchise that signs the player should be forced to pay 2% of the total value of the contract to the junior club/district from where the player came from. As you know, each Australian franchise can only pay a maximum of $165K per player, anything above that is topped up by the ARU. So on the maximum contract of $165K, $3300 would go to the junior club/district. So it would cost the franchsie $168,300 for the player.

In the last 3 years of Phil Waugh's Waratah career (after Robbie Deans cut him from the ARU contracted group) the Tahs went and sought permission from ARU to pay over the 165K which was granted. The Tahs paid his full contract.....$350K per annum. That would've been 7K per year going to Narrabeen Tigers........a junior club that is struggling to survive.

Having this process in place would force the Sydney Uni's of the world to actually develop a junior base and not just sit by and recruit the NSW Schoolboys team every year.....

you know it makes sense