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Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

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Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
From reading Lee Grants posts I would have thought that the CHS lock would have made a team. Was he ripped off or injured?

There's another alternative: that others played better. Rorke was always going to be the 1st lock picked and Queenslanders Cornelsen and Koczyk came to my notice later in the tournament. I had those 3 in after the Final .

Manukea was good in the NSW trials and was in the NSW Is starting team, played well earlier in the Oz tournament but I didn't notice him a lot toward the end. NSW Is played all their starters in the Final except Manukea, whose place went to improver Lloyd.

But I didn't notice why Phillip and Potgeiter were chosen ahead of him in the 46 players. I wouldn't jump up and down about it though because Manukea was quiet at the end.
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tomasi15

Bob McCowan (2)
There's another alternative: that others played better. Rorke was always going to be the 1st lock picked and Queenslanders Cornelsen and Koczyk came to my notice later in the tournament. I had those 3 in after the Final .

Manukea was good in the NSW trials and was in the NSW Is starting team, played well earlier in the Oz tournament but I didn't notice him a lot toward the end. NSW Is played all their starters in the Final except Manukea, whose place went to improver Lloyd.

But I didn't notice why Phillip and Potgeiter were chosen ahead of him in the 46 players. I wouldn't jump up and down about it though because Manukea was quiet at the end.
.

Ask any front rower that has played in front of Manukea in a scrum and he'll tell you exactly where his faults lie. He cannot scrummage! He offers his front-row no support in the scrums. As I read in the opening games reports on NSW I, their scrum was often unstable. Once they replaced him their scrum grew stronger (except for the T/H prop). I know they spent a lot of time in camp trying to correct this, but obviously time ran out. I also think he plays far too loose for a tight five player. No doubting the kid has a lot of natural talent and still remains a good prospect for the future.
 

whatever

Darby Loudon (17)
I know I will get my a-hole kicked from breakfast to dinner but today CCC won the U18 national rugby league title and had 10 players named in the Aus team out of 17 to play an English academy side in a two test series, also, the CCC u15s won their national title and had 9 players named in a 13 boy Aus merit team.

I know it is a different game and the transfer over of players to the tight 5 is not a goer but a quick backrower and the backs can make the transition.

So, why is it that on a continual basis CCC has no players picked in the NSW Schools RU sides. This year 1 open player selected as a reserve and in the U16s none. And there were at least 8 U16s from this years CCC squad in the ARU JGS set up.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Didn't you know, NSWRU is a branch office for the Masons.

Bloody agitator :)

Well explain how Hicksy (ex-NSWCCC Rugby Convener) was appointed the NSWSRU Secretary this year? The Mason are noted for being 'Conspicuously Inconspicuous' . The ole reseverse psychology ;)

BTW when is the next branch meeting MOTH! :D
 

whatever

Darby Loudon (17)
Bloody agitator :)

Well explain how Hicksy (ex-NSWCCC Rugby Convener) was appointed the NSWSRU Secretary this year? The Mason are noted for being 'Conspicuously Inconspicuous' . The ole reseverse psychology ;)

BTW when is the next branch meeting MOTH! :D

C'mon Newbie, you know a few of our leaders (pontiffs) have been members of this evil secretive GPS ;) organisation.:) Hicksy, you have me worried.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
It seems that CCC supporters may have a gripe about the non-selection of their students for NSW Schools teams.

From what limited I have seem of CCC teams, there are some talented and athletic individuals playing for CCC, but they fall down as they seem to lack the cohesion as a rugby team with rugby smarts.

The only way they are going to get those smarts is through more school rugby, village club rugby, or the various talent development squads and programmes out there, or some combination of more than one of these.

The role of the various rep selectors is not a development role. They are selecting kids who are performing at the required level now, not those kids who have the potential to perform at some future date.

More school rugby. Parents and supporters need to lobby the various Sports masters, and Principals to raise the profile of Rugby within the CCC System. Lobby for more interschool or regional games, perhaps games against ACT or QLD CCC school selections. Arrange more trial games in the build up to NSW Schools carnivals. If CAS retain their two round model, there may be some opportunities to slot in some games in the ISA/GPS trials programme. IMHO until CCC as an organisation get more committed to Rugby as a sporting option with more regular tough games outside the NSW Schools Carnivals, they will continue to be selection bridesmaids.

Village Club rugby. Noting that many (but not all) of the talented CCC kids are dual coders, and junior mungoball is played on both Saturday and Sunday depending where you are, SJRU offers options of either Saturday games (predominantely in the West and South), and Sunday games.

Talented Athlete Programmes. I understand that JGS selectors visit many carnivals across both codes to talent spot. The process of nominating for the JGS has been opened up and appears to be relatively transparent. It is not a guarantee of selection for higher honours as many in the programme have found out.

The bottom line is that gaining selection for the higher representative honours is not something that you just turn up to with no previous effort.

Many of the GPS and CAS kids who are deemed to be treated favourably by the selectors have been playing rugby since they were 4 years old. Many have attended primary schools where they have played rugby as a weekend sport, as well as playing regular village club rugby. They have attended various rugby development camps as and when these have come up. They have played State champs every year for their district team since they were 10. Many of these kids also play for the age group above themselves as well as their own age group, either off the bench or as a run on player.

While at high school, these kids have played both school and village club each week throughout the year as well. They live and breathe rugby with the same passion and devotion that 14 year old girls reserve for Justin Beiber idolation.

Are these kids any better? Probably not, they just have more experience and do the necessary things intuitively. This makes a difference.

Many CCC kids are already playing village club rugby in either country or SJRU and were at Junior State Champs, giving them several pathways for higher representative selection. These kids are getting picked up. If they don't make Schools, they are in Juniors or Country selections at 16's level.
 

Wannabe Selector

Frank Nicholson (4)
It seems ...............

HJ would you say your opinion would be the same for Sports High Schools. Reason I say this at the time I was looking for a school for my kids to hopefully progress in rugby, I found Westfields Sports High School cause I couldnt afford GPS. They both were in the Hugh Carpenter era where they won the Sanix World Cup and the Waratah Shield and my kids both played NSW and now play overseas. But having friends kids attending the school now I have been told there is no push to develop the Rugby Program as they did those days. Looking at the 16s NSW there wasnt any Westfields boys in the team (correct me if im wrong). What are they to do as I was told selectors dont look at CHS boys but more GPS.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Wannabe, I think the same comments apply to CHS as they do the the CCC. It just seems that there are more passionate and committed CCC posters in Gaggerland.

I note that there are several CHS boys in the various U16 teams for Nationals, but most of them probably came to prominance through their Village Club involvement rather than turning up at the Schools tournament as a relative unknown.

Same goes for the St Andrews and Chevalier lads that made NSW Schools from ISA. These schools are hardly known for their rugby programmes but those boys were also in Junior State Championships and made the Zone teams for the SJRU regionals. That being said IIRC both St Andrews and Chevalier had a Aust Schoolboy a couple of years back: Brodie (prop) and Black (#9). I suspect that those boys maximised their opportunities through the club, school and talented athlete programmes.

It would be sad if the Sports High Schools are not actively promoting Rugby, or if the ARU/NSWRU have disengaged from the SHS or CHS programmes because there are a very large number of kids with potential in those schools that would be worthy of additional development.

It is rather well known that ARU have very limited funding, compared to NRL or AFL, but if they are serious about growing the game they need to look into CCC and CHS, and convert them (and their parents) while they are young.

The Public High School system have a very proud record of outstanding performance in the past, both in terms of producing Wallabies, Waratahs and winning Waratah Shields.

What is the Jesuit Philosophy? "give me the boy and I will give you the man"
 

Vanuatu Chiefs

Sydney Middleton (9)
Wannabe, I think the same comments apply to CHS as they do the the CCC. It just seems that there are more passionate and committed CCC posters in Gaggerland.

I note that there are several CHS boys in the various U16 teams for Nationals, but most of them probably came to prominance through their Village Club involvement rather than turning up at the Schools tournament as a relative unknown.

Same goes for the St Andrews and Chevalier lads that made NSW Schools from ISA. These schools are hardly known for their rugby programmes but those boys were also in Junior State Championships and made the Zone teams for the SJRU regionals. That being said IIRC both St Andrews and Chevalier had a Aust Schoolboy a couple of years back: Brodie (prop) and Black (#9). I suspect that those boys maximised their opportunities through the club, school and talented athlete programmes.

It would be sad if the Sports High Schools are not actively promoting Rugby, or if the ARU/NSWRU have disengaged from the SHS or CHS programmes because there are a very large number of kids with potential in those schools that would be worthy of additional development.

It is rather well known that ARU have very limited funding, compared to NRL or AFL, but if they are serious about growing the game they need to look into CCC and CHS, and convert them (and their parents) while they are young.

The Public High School system have a very proud record of outstanding performance in the past, both in terms of producing Wallabies, Waratahs and winning Waratah Shields.

What is the Jesuit Philosophy? "give me the boy and I will give you the man"

HJ, thank you. IMO your posts today deserve a wider audience, including, to the ARU, public/sports high schools etc. Some sound reasoning for expansion/promotion of the game at schoolboy level.
 

whatever

Darby Loudon (17)
It seems that CCC supporters may have a gripe about the non-selection of their students for NSW Schools teams.

From what limited I have seem of CCC teams, there are some talented and athletic individuals playing for CCC, but they fall down as they seem to lack the cohesion as a rugby team with rugby smarts.

The only way they are going to get those smarts is through more school rugby, village club rugby, or the various talent development squads and programmes out there, or some combination of more than one of these.

The role of the various rep selectors is not a development role. They are selecting kids who are performing at the required level now, not those kids who have the potential to perform at some future date.

--------

The bottom line is that gaining selection for the higher representative honours is not something that you just turn up to with no previous effort.

Many of the GPS and CAS kids who are deemed to be treated favourably by the selectors have been playing rugby since they were 4 years old. Many have attended primary schools where they have played rugby as a weekend sport, as well as playing regular village club rugby. They have attended various rugby development camps as and when these have come up. They have played State champs every year for their district team since they were 10. Many of these kids also play for the age group above themselves as well as their own age group, either off the bench or as a run on player.

While at high school, these kids have played both school and village club each week throughout the year as well. They live and breathe rugby with the same passion and devotion that 14 year old girls reserve for Justin Beiber idolation.

Are these kids any better? Probably not, they just have more experience and do the necessary things intuitively. This makes a difference.

Many CCC kids are already playing village club rugby in either country or SJRU and were at Junior State Champs, giving them several pathways for higher representative selection. These kids are getting picked up. If they don't make Schools, they are in Juniors or Country selections at 16's level.

HJ,

What you express is fine, no argument.

My beef is that the selectors of NSW Schools are not independent, pre-dominantly GPS, CAS etc. Therefore, the selection system is bias.

Take a look at the U16s NSW School Championships results over the last few years and tell me that no CCC player deserved selection.

If someone can list the schools selection panel over the last few years and you will see my point.

I am not saying that the CCC boys should have had the majority of selections but maybe 3-4, depending the individuals and the year, out of 23 selections.
 
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