Scotland v Australia 12Nov16 Saturday

[Beer Baron]

Speaking of Coleman and Arnold at 25 and 26 respectively they aren't as young as i thought they were.

..young enough for 2019! i cant believe there is talk of rotation. give them some time to develop a partnership.

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[Strewthcobber]

Speaking of Coleman and Arnold at 25 and 26 respectively they aren't as young as i thought they were.

It's a shame we'll only be getting 18 months out of them until they are yesterdays men like Douglas and Simmons

 

[Pfitzy]

Pfitzy,

I can only assume you mean transferring pressure such as in this video here around the 45min mark on the game clock:

- when there is a pass to nobody on attack and intercepted.

- when the flyhalf takes the ball, drifts aimlessly sideways and then passes to a player to get tackled 5m further back.

Are those the types of things you mean?

Yep.

I assume you're going to head off and find the videos where Cooper did it? No?

That's OK - I'm secure enough in my analysis to know I'm right.

And, quite frankly, no-one probably has the time to compile Quade's incidences of getting smashed under pressure or giving the ball to a man in a worse position.

As I said: neither of them are perfect.

 

[Twoilms]

Somebody start a Foley - Cooper thread already.

 

[Pfitzy]

Somebody start a Foley - Cooper thread already.

We already have about a dozen going at any one time.

 

[Scrubber2050]

The Scotland game cannot come soon enough

We might get some new views / thoughts

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pfitzy, why would I bother doing that? Nobody is disputing that Cooper makes these mistake.

You are just disputing that Foley does too.

My point is that when put under pressure, he has many of the same failings.

In my view this is in addition to has likeliness for intercepts, charge downs and missing kicks for touch.

Twolims it's a bit rich for you to state your opinion as fact, then when people throw some facts to tell the other side of the story try and step away as though you're above it all. You're more than happy to plunge your hands in the filth just like me and Pfitzy.

 

[Lindommer]

This Cooper/Foley debate's gone all silly. How 'bout we all agree to disagree, and cease.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Nutter,

I was just merely saying that if your logic is picking the safe option due to weather, you pick the player that makes less errors and has a better kicking game.

I'm just a little sick of creative logic that only applies when it suits. Apparently for the Bled is was perfectly acceptable to go with combinations at 9/10 regardless of prior recent performance.

Now with Genia back who's saying we need to maintain the combinations? Now some of the same people are saying we need to build new combinations.

But I will say my view is that we overrate the Wales win at our peril. Look at our 12 in a row wins and probably half of them have either Cooper, Foley or Barnes as MOTM. Each of those years we've either gone on to, or in matches prior struggled against better packs like England when the pressure has been put on. This win against Wales is just more of the same with them probably weaker than ever based on results and availability.

If Foley was the best option before last weekend, based on everything we've seen in 2016, then fair enough.

And hence you have cooper on the bench as foley does not perform he gets pulled early but you should always reward form from most recent game as recent form is best guide to future likely form.

I don't buy into the whole halves combination thing..but would be good to see foley back up last performance with another good performance. As I only want the best 10 in form playing for the wallabies and whether that is foley or cooper I don't care as I think most should by now accept they are pretty neck in neck as both had pro's and cons and really at least if foley slips we have cooper on the bench ready to cover. I think we would be happy if both cooper and foley were in form as best option as would have good starters and finishers in that position.


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[Scrubber2050]

And hence you have cooper on the bench as foley does not perform he gets pulled early but you should always reward form from most recent game as recent form is best guide to future likely form.

I don't buy into the whole halves combination thing..but would be good to see foley back up last performance with another good performance. As I only want the best 10 in form playing for the wallabies and whether that is foley or cooper I don't care as I think most should by now accept they are pretty neck in neck as both had pro's and cons and really at least if foley slips we have cooper on the bench ready to cover. I think we would be happy if both cooper and foley were in form as best option as would have good starters and finishers in that position.


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Whilst Bernard is a handsome young bloke lets use the word "replace"

 

[Ignoto]

Speaking of Coleman and Arnold at 25 and 26 respectively they aren't as young as i thought they were.

Well, to be fair, Rory Arnold was busy getting his Acting and WWE career kicked off the ground as Dalip Singh!

 

[Train Without a Station]

I must agree with Scrubber there. Let's keep it above the belt. Both the good and the bad.

What's so silly about the discussion? It's no more silly than saying we should not consider changing our team because we beat a team that's ranked 7th, won 3 games all year, and they were against teams ranked 8th or lower.

We are simply getting carried away. Let's look at the effectiveness of our attack in our last 4 games.

Game 1 - 10 Clean Breaks from 88 phases. 11.3% effectiveness (Based on per phase).

Game 2 - 15 Clean Breaks from 40 phases. 37.5% effectiveness.

Game 3 - 6 Clean Breaks from 122 phases. 4.9% effectiveness.

Game 4 - 16 Clean Breaks from 114 phases. 14.9% effectiveness.

We've looked god because we've had the ball anywhere from 50% to 300% more in the last 2 games.

I think we can all agree that you are more likely to break the line when you have the ball. Oh and that Game 3 was against a very strong opponent so you are always going to be less effective at breaking the line.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I must agree with Scrubber there. Let's keep it above the belt. Both the good and the bad.

What's so silly about the discussion? It's no more silly than saying we should not consider changing our team because we beat a team that's ranked 7th, won 3 games all year, and they were against teams ranked 8th or lower.

We are simply getting carried away. Let's look at the effectiveness of our attack in our last 4 games.

Game 1 - 10 Clean Breaks from 88 phases. 11.3% effectiveness (Based on per phase).

Game 2 - 15 Clean Breaks from 40 phases. 37.5% effectiveness.

Game 3 - 6 Clean Breaks from 122 phases. 4.9% effectiveness.

Game 4 - 16 Clean Breaks from 114 phases. 14.9% effectiveness.

We've looked god because we've had the ball anywhere from 50% to 300% more in the last 2 games.

I think we can all agree that you are more likely to break the line when you have the ball. Oh and that Game 3 was against a very strong opponent so you are always going to be less effective at breaking the line.

But do you replace a player who was also man of the match?


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[Twoilms]

Pfitzy, why would I bother doing that? Nobody is disputing that Cooper makes these mistake.

You are just disputing that Foley does too.

My point is that when put under pressure, he has many of the same failings.

In my view this is in addition to has likeliness for intercepts, charge downs and missing kicks for touch.

Twolims it's a bit rich for you to state your opinion as fact, then when people throw some facts to tell the other side of the story try and step away as though you're above it all. You're more than happy to plunge your hands in the filth just like me and Pfitzy.

Yeah i was about to dive in, made a post, deleted it and stopped. Just pointless.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Whilst Bernard is a handsome young bloke lets use the word "replace"

Dirty bugger - but probably what I should expect from a scrubber




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[Train Without a Station]

Nutter I'd say it would be foolish to base your selections on MOTM awards.

Firstly they do not consider how a player performed in their role. They are subjective based on the visibility to those who vote.

They also don't consider relative performance. A player could be better than another player in another match but not get the award because others around him play better or show a few moments of individual brilliance.

If after 10 tests this year Cheika thought Foley was his best flyhalf, then he should stick with him.

If he wasn't sure, it's my view he should let the weekend's match sway his view, for the multiple reasons I have outlined. Most notably the strength of opposition, forward performance, possession and effectiveness of our attacking breaking the line.

 

[PeterK]

TWAS - Be fair, Wales were ranked 5th when we played them.
Their loss and Irelands win dropped them to 7th.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Fair point Peter.

 

[barbarian]

This happens any time the Wallabies win in style. We never allow ourselves to say 'we played bloody well', and instead lay our success at the feet of the opposition, who 'played terribly'.

It's such a joyless way to be a fan. Yeah the Welsh may not have been firing on all cylinders, but that's because we never allowed them to. No-one is pretending they are the All Blacks, but they are still a fucking good side with some fucking good players. And we flogged them.
.

 

[amirite]

This happens any time the Wallabies win in style. We never allow ourselves to say 'we played bloody well', and instead lay our success at the feet of the opposition, who 'played terribly'.

It's such a joyless way to be a fan. Yeah the Welsh may not have been firing on all cylinders, but that's because we never allowed them to. No-one is pretending they are the All Blacks, but they are still a fucking good side with some fucking good players. And we flogged them.
.

Yeah, Australian rugby fans are never happy unless we win the WC and are ranked number 1 - and even then not for very long.

People need to realise, year on year we have the hardest test schedule of any nation. This year more than most.