School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Balmain Subbies]

Will this be the future? Will it get to this?

Joker, terrible attempt at trying to be funny. This cartoon is referring to Cam Newton taking money whilst being on scholarship at Auburn. It has nothing to do with actual scholarships

(No harm towards Newington, but it was the black and white that swayed it)

 

[Quick Hands]

I’m with Balmain Subbies here, let the scholarships flow. Gives student athletes a leg up in their sporting pursuits while still offering them a solid education.

Sport high school union programs are shit, there’s not a single sport high school in the country that runs a program anywhere near as well as a private school does

I don’t see what the big deal is besides it’s currently “not allowed”, I think those rules are outdated and should be revisited

Then we agree to disagree.

 

[Quick Hands]

Nope, once again you became a keyboard warrior before engaging brain. I was referring to the US college system champ

With someone of your obviously high intellect involved, it's a wonder that Balmain Subbies aren't playing in and winning Shute Shield by now.

A pity that Geography isn't your strong point though, we're actually in Australia and talking about the Australian high school system and what's appropriate here. Keep those red herrings coming though. I love a good laugh.

EDIT: And I love the fact that someone using a keyboard on an internet forum refers to someone else as a "keyboard warrior". Maybe you do sarcasm (and not very well) but missed the lessons on irony?

 

[Quick Hands]

Not too sure about this - until 2019 the large majority of QLD children finishing school were 17. I finished school in NSW aged 17, so did probably 30% of my cohort.

Most private schools have a cut off of March 31, which means that almost all of them would be 18 before university starts.

I've had/have kids in the State sytem, the private system and the catholic system at various points. The vast majority start school so that they are in the 13s age group when they hit high school. This is clearly evident at sports carnivals, where for example in the 12s age group at high school there would be less than 10% of the year group involved. Same goes for various sports in primary and it's because most parents these days don't start their kids in kindergarten until they've already turned 5 (i.e. they will turn 6 at some point in the year).

 

[southsider]

Then we agree to disagree.

I’m still not sure what your argument is against it though other than “I don’t like it”

 

[formerflanker]

Oh buddy, you are once again oh so wrong, I use my phone talk to text functbut very nice try. Your technology is outdated like your theories on sporting scholarships. And in regards to my post of "kids" starting college at 17 in the US, if you engaged your brain again you would of seen we were comparing Australian Schools to US colleges..buddy read First, think, read again, think, talk to someone smarter then maybe reply.

I'm quite enjoying your aggressive approach against rugby followers.
I am having fun predicting the point at which the moderators will cut off your belittling invective.

 

[I like to watch]

I’m still not sure what your argument is against it though other than “I don’t like it”

Undoubtedly the School that cheats gets a benefit.
However, the association clearly believes that the practice does not improve their competition.
Apart from bragging rights,many recruits get very little benefit.
Many are already in the League system,and “improving” their Rugby skill is of no benefit.
The training workload is so high for non local recruits, they don’t get any benefit of the “better education” they were promised.
Poaching players from other competitions,weakens all other areas of the game....

 

[formerflanker]

From Rugby.com
"Cryotherapy, hyperbaric chambers, extra gym sessions.
You name it, Wallabies utility Reece Hodge is doing it in a bid to return for round one of Super Rugby 2019."
Anyone would think he is aiming for selection in Scots 1st XV.

 

[southsider]

Undoubtedly the School that cheats gets a benefit.
However, the association clearly believes that the practice does not improve their competition.
Apart from bragging rights,many recruits get very little benefit.
Many are already in the League system,and “improving” their Rugby skill is of no benefit.
The training workload is so high for non local recruits, they don’t get any benefit of the “better education” they were promised.
Poaching players from other competitions,weakens all other areas of the game..

The “cheating part” fair enough, although it’s just an honour code I don’t believe there is anything binding them to actually stick to it? As I’ve said previously I think it’s outdated and needs revising

Sorry but the rest is just Bs, I know many of the scholarship guys when I went to school improved their academic side exponentially after moving across to a private school. The workload isn’t THAT high either, yes it’s full on but it’s pretty manageable

While some are in the league system the majority aren’t, to those that are, improving their rugby skills is of immense benefit - it opens up to more possibilities for a contract post school.

If there were no benefits then the recruits simply wouldn’t do it? Even if they went to the school under false pretences, again if they didn’t see value they’d just leave after a year, how many times have you heard of a scholarship rugby player leaving?

 

[sidelineview]

Does anyone object to scholarships being offered to indigenous kids who happen to have rugby skills?

 

[Balmain Subbies]

Does anyone object to scholarships being offered to indigenous kids who happen to have rugby skills?

You mean the Kurtly Beale scholarship..... Funny how that is never mentioned

 

[Quick Hands]

I’m still not sure what your argument is against it though other than “I don’t like it”

School sport, or to use the traditional name “games”, is primarily undertaken for educational objectives, and the prime purpose is to provide wide participation at a good level for all boys throughout the school. These objectives include the development of a healthy lifestyle, teamwork, sportsmanship in its highest forms, self-control and character. On these points it would seem to send a mixed educational message that when faced with a relative weakness, one would buy a solution rather than work towards developing one’s own talents or potential talents. At this point the amateur and educational tradition moves towards the values and strategies of professional sport. The high profile nature of inter school competitions is often used as a measure for marketing and publicity, matters which are less likely for academic and music scholars. The purpose of sporting scholarships is primarily to gain advantage in prestigious sports at first team level. The integrity of the competition at a senior level is destroyed as it becomes impossible for other schools to have any hope of success in the competition.

 

[Joker]

You mean the Kurtly Beale scholarship... Funny how that is never mentioned

Oh Subbie........please read again.

There have been over 240 indigenous students pass through SJC since the inception of the fund back in 2001. In that time TWO students (Dylan Ashby the other) from that cohort has played for the 1st XV. But the fund has produced many young men who have become teachers, soldiers, doctors, local leaders and solicitors all giving back to their community. A ONE has become a Wallaby.

Yawnnnnn

 

[southsider]

School sport, or to use the traditional name “games”, is primarily undertaken for educational objectives, and the prime purpose is to provide wide participation at a good level for all boys throughout the school. These objectives include the development of a healthy lifestyle, teamwork, sportsmanship in its highest forms, self-control and character. On these points it would seem to send a mixed educational message that when faced with a relative weakness, one would buy a solution rather than work towards developing one’s own talents or potential talents. At this point the amateur and educational tradition moves towards the values and strategies of professional sport. The high profile nature of inter school competitions is often used as a measure for marketing and publicity, matters which are less likely for academic and music scholars. The purpose of sporting scholarships is primarily to gain advantage in prestigious sports at first team level. The integrity of the competition at a senior level is destroyed as it becomes impossible for other schools to have any hope of success in the competition.

Man I can tell you’re on the wrong side of 50 just by reading that post

Get with the times quick hands, it’s ok for the top grades to be more professional, if you want to just do it for fun that’s fine, just drop down a couple of divisions. But us lot who have actually played recently in this more professional environment all enjoyed doing so, otherwise we wouldn’t do it? All teams are capabale of recruiting and being competitive, it’s their prerogative to do it or not, Newington would really struggle to be where they are without recruitment we just don’t have the numbers year to year that other schools do.

I ultimately lost my position in the 1st XV to a player on scholarship, did it suck? Hell yea but I wasn’t good enough plain and simple it made me want to train harder and become better. Kids are resilient don’t sell them short

 

[sidelineview]

Oh Subbie....please read again.

There have been over 240 indigenous students pass through SJC since the inception of the fund back in 2001. In that time TWO students (Dylan Ashby the other) from that cohort has played for the 1st XV. But the fund has produced many young men who have become teachers, soldiers, doctors, local leaders and solicitors all giving back to their community. A ONE has become a Wallaby.

Yawnnnnn

Thats an impressive record and one which proves it's not a scheme to recruit talented Koori kids for the 1st XV.

However, wasn't there a Koori kid on scholarship last year who is in the Aussie sevens now?

 

[Joker]

Thats an impressive record and one which proves it's not a scheme to recruit talented Koori kids for the 1st XV.

However, wasn't there a Koori kid on scholarship last year who is in the Aussie sevens now?

Yes, my apologies. I will do some more checking but these three come to mind. That was Yirribi. He was one of three brothers. His younger brother, Binban was a high jumper. His elder brother I believe left before year 12.

 

[sidelineview]

Yes, my apologies. I will do some more checking but these three come to mind. That was Yirribi. He was one of three brothers. His younger brother, Binban was a high jumper. His elder brother I believe left before year 12.

The player I was thinking of was Tristan Reilly who played for Combined States in 2017. He was primarily a league player before he went to Joey's.
He signed for Randwick rugby and has been recruited for the Aussie Sevens.
Only one player but still..

Anyway, it seems it's one scholarship scheme that hasn't been abused.

 

[Balmain Subbies]

I'm quite enjoying your aggressive approach against rugby followers.
I am having fun predicting the point at which the moderators will cut off your belittling invective.

Not all rugby followers buddy, just some who cannot argue proplerly. No doubt you'll go running off to complain.

 

[I like to watch]

Man I can tell you’re on the wrong side of 50 just by reading that post

Get with the times quick hands, it’s ok for the top grades to be more professional, if you want to just do it for fun that’s fine, just drop down a couple of divisions. But us lot who have actually played recently in this more professional environment all enjoyed doing so, otherwise we wouldn’t do it? All teams are capabale of recruiting and being competitive, it’s their prerogative to do it or not, Newington would really struggle to be where they are without recruitment we just don’t have the numbers year to year that other schools do.

I ultimately lost my position in the 1st XV to a player on scholarship, did it suck? Hell yea but I wasn’t good enough plain and simple it made me want to train harder and become better. Kids are resilient don’t sell them short

That's the entire point.
Its NOT ok for the top sides to be more professional.
Newington literally bussed in an entire squad to represent them a few years ago.
What's the point of that?
Other Schools have equipment that most professional teams do not have for their full time professional players.

Tell me how many morning sessions do they do now? What time do they start?
How many arvo sessions? What time do they finish?

It defies logic to suggest kids who are not local have sufficient time to study properly.

Sport is supposed to be an extra that Schools provide.
Instead you seem to think that Sport is the primary objective of the School.

Its worrying that you simply say that as you cant be competitive on your merits,its ok to cheat to win.

 

[southsider]

That's the entire point.
Its NOT ok for the top sides to be more professional.
Newington literally bussed in an entire squad to represent them a few years ago.
What's the point of that?
Other Schools have equipment that most professional teams do not have for their full time professional players.

Tell me how many morning sessions do they do now? What time do they start?
How many arvo sessions? What time do they finish?

It defies logic to suggest kids who are not local have sufficient time to study properly.

Sport is supposed to be an extra that Schools provide.
Instead you seem to think that Sport is the primary objective of the School.

Its worrying that you simply say that as you cant be competitive on your merits,its ok to cheat to win.

Like I said, the “rules” need changing, and I put rules in inverted commas because as previously stated as far as I’m aware it’s an honour code nothing more nothing less, there’s no regulation of it and no penalties if you do it

And who gives a fuck that they have equipment that pro rugby teams don’t have, they’re richer and can afford it, good for them

I’m telling you they do have time to study, I’ve bloody done it, 30+ kids across multiple schools in the gps and cas do it every year and get good marks hardly anyone that goes to a private school these days are “local” to the area. What’s your experience of this?? To me it sounds like little to none.

At no point in time have I even hinted it’s a primary objective, but for some people it is a very important part, and that’s ok. My family had the choice between sending me to trinity or Newington and the rugby program was the point of difference, I loved my footy and took it seriously so my parents wanted to give me the best chance to succeed possible