School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Quick Hands]

I hear cranbooks star under 16 kid , Jude Gibbs is off to joeys on scholarship

And yet joeys always grizzling that $cots are the kings of cheque book rugby

Not so sure .

Either way shame for cranbrook. another CAS title is now looking unlikely

If the kid turned up anywhere else, you could expect Joeys supporters to be casting all sorts of aspersions at the school in question.

 

[Armchair Selector]

Just read Vegas' observation of the QLD GPS program and the impact of scholarships. Worth a read

There is no doubt the quality of the 1st XV schoolboy rugby is good - but at what cost ? What is schoolboy rugby really about ?

Schoolboy Rugby is about the 400 or 500 boys in the programme, not just the 1stXV and A teams. 1st XV and A teams is certainly the pinnacle for boys to aspire to ( note - not get parachuted into ), but it is not the be all and end all. I haven't seen many comments in this forum about broader rugby programmes, participation, number of boys in the programme etc., or about the boys in the 13Cs or 14Ds that were developed through and are now training in a 1stXV train-on squad - let's hear about those guys on this forum.

It is not the job of schoolboy rugby to provide a pathway for the betterment of the QRU / ARU - if the QRU and ARU got off their arses and did their job properly, pathways would lead to outcomes as a matter of course.

Nor should schoolboy rugby be a holding pen or incubator for NRL prospects.

Schoolboy rugby is about it meaning something to represent your school - not just playing a game as a means to an end.

Its about heeding a call of arms with your mates and bleeding every weekend for them and your school, about playing in the morning, and then hanging around with your mates to watch the First XV game - dreaming one day that you might get the opportunity to run onto the Main Oval at 2:30 . ( Its a bit hard to be engaged when you have to run off from training on Thursday, or on the weekend, to prepare for the Cyril Connell Cup! Even knowing your school warcry would be a good start !)

Schoolboy rugby is about setting the benchmark with that hot team in Under 13, setting aim and measuring your progress against that team each year through to First XV. It makes it a bit hard when that benchmark brings in 6 better players in Yr 10, and then another couple in Yrs 11 and 12.

The system is broken - full stop. The objective of these rugby programmes is counter-intuitive to what these schools should be about - scholarships are fine, but as long as they are in place for the betterment of the boy . This programme is arse-about, and the race to dish out scholarships today is primarily for the betterment of the school - the boy is really a means to an end.

Interesting - you have the schools using the boy, and the boy using the school - now there's a guarantee of commitment and passion !

The system is broken. You just have to see and hear the disenchantment of the boys throughout the schools - those who set that benchmark in Yr 8 and worked toward the goal of running onto main oval at 2:30, only now to be overlooked for boys brought in ( or bought ?? ) in Yrs 11 and 12. Even worse is the resignation of boys in Yrs 8 and 9 today, seeing what is going on ahead of them, and wondering whether it is really worth their while !

Simply responding that "everyone else is doing it, so we have to" is a cop-out.

The scholarship programmes are to the rugby culture in the schools what myxomotosis was to rabbits !

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Whale berry]

Just read Vegas' observation of the QLD GPS program and the impact of scholarships. Worth a read



I couldn't agree more.

Absolutely spot on

 

[GPS Observer]

The desire for the GPS member schools to not do all they can to be the best at everything ( including all competitive sports) seems to prevail on this thread. Don't quote their rules to me, nearly none of the schools has always complied with the sporting scholarship rules so the rules are an embarrassing joke. Behaviours in business and the natural world don't discourage continuous improvement. Where in life is the model that says because I got here first ( through a fortunate birth rather than my own endeavours) and work hard I am entitled to succeed ?

 

[I like to watch]

but the continuous improvement is supposed to be with their enrolled kids.

You're not improving anything if you bus in a load of mercenaries to fight your battles.

It's a great life lesson for the kids to learn that if you do the wrong thing,deny the undeniable, there are often no repercussions.

 

[Armchair Selector]

GPS Observer

Don't quote their rules to me, nearly none of the schools has always complied with the sporting scholarship rules so the rules are an embarrassing joke.

Isnt this the exact point and the cause of the angst. Gauging the mood of these forums it would appear that the problem is far worse in QLD.

For AAGPS, if you don't enforce your code, why bother having it!

 

[CatchnPass]

@GPS Observer, the flouting of the Code is not simply an embarrassing joke though - it undermines the values many of the AAGPS schools purport to inculcate in their charges. How can boys be expected to believe in concepts such as honour, integrity, respect and justice when those teaching are flagrantly breaching their own rules? It has always been and remains a short sighted stance with long term negative implications.

 

[Quick Hands]

Behaviours in business and the natural world don't discourage continuous improvement.

But we aren't talking about continuous improvement here though. What we are talking about is schools not improving their own players, but rather importing players that other people have improved.

Overreliance on mercenaries was one of the key factors in the defeat of the Carthaginian Emprie by the Romans (who had citizen soldiers who they had trained themselves from scratch).

EDIT: The system that you seem to be advocating is to the advantage of the schools with the biggest budget and best talent scouts to the disadvantage of the schools with the superior coaching programme.

 

[CNorth]

the scholarship debate makes it sound there are multiply recipients in each 1st xv side??? Anyone care to put a number (without naming individual ) for each side for the predicted sides for 2017??

 

[CNorth]

For Joeys posted by Ethan Jones #509

My predicted Joeys 1st XV with what year they are in next year and team last year

1. Julian Heaven (Yr 11/16A)
2. James Bouchier (Yr 12/16A)
3. Fiu Gibson (Yr 12/3rds)
4. John Yates (Yr 12/1sts)
5. Nick Jansen/Tom Sutherland (Both Yr 12/Both 3rds)
6. Sam Abbey (Yr 12/Injured(1sts)) (Could be injured again)
7. Paddy Dalton (Yr 12/1sts)
8. Cody Edstein-Boyes (c) (Yr 12/1sts)
9. Dylan Dowling (vc) (Yr 12/1sts)
10. Vincent Creagh (Yr 11/16A)
11. Jack McConnell (Yr 11/16A)
12. Jack Quinn (Yr 12/2nds and 3rds)
13. Triston Reilly (Yr 12/1sts)
14. Joseph Kandalaft (Yr 12/2nds)
15. Zack Carey (Yr 11/16A)

Other Posibilities

6. Max Swanenberg (Year 12/2nds)
9. Joe Dalton (Yr 11/16A)
10. Sam Brandon (Yr 12/Injured)
7. Nelson Roberts (Yr 11/16A)
11. Lachlan Shortis (Yr 12/3rds)

Opportunity for a no. 6 as Sam Abbey might have redone his knee

For Kings posted by Azzuri #354

I would think the following lads are in contention for Kings first XV for 2017

1. Dougal Hicks (first XV in 2016) - AAGPS White
2. Ciaran Loh (2nd XV in 2016 - some First XV experience)
3. Jonathan Papantoniou (2nd XV in 2016 - some first XV experience)
4. Mac Williams (first XV in 2016) AAGPS White
5. Tbc
6. Nick Pepper (2016 16a?)
7. Charlie Brown (2016 First XV)
8. Sam Loch - (2016 16a's)
9. Henry Robbo
10. Matt Minogue (2016 16a's)
11. Eddie Mann
12. Eddie Poolman (2016 2nd XV)
13. Ben Duckworth (2016 First XV) AAGPS White
14. Lachlan Apps
15. Tbc

For Scots posted by Rich_E #317

1. Tom Leslie - 2nds
2. Nathan Zylstra - 16As and NSW u16s
3. Darcy Breen - 1sts and NSW II schools
4. Nelson Bours - 2nds
5. Nick Mcgeoch - 2nds
6. Jeremy Williams - 2nds and Pres A
7. Angus McKenzie - 2nds
8. Will Harris - 16As, 1sts and Pres A
9. Seb Strang - 16As
10. Jake Styles - 2nds
11. Billy Smith 1sts
12. Charlie Savala - injured all season. Would have made 16As and possibly 1sts/2nds
13. Ryan O'Bierne - 1sts
14. Tom Yassmin - 1st and Green and Gold GPS Team of 2016
15. Ben Baker - 2nds and Pres B

Orhers in the mix and likely to make team somewhere are.

Brett Wellington - centre - 2nds and NSW u16s
Charlie Burnett - back three - 2nds
Charlie Baker - 12 and 15 - 3rds and Pres B

For Newington posted by YG4HUNNID #82

Possible Newington 1STXV 2017?

1) Ofahangaue (Y11)
2) Icanovski (Y12)
3) Bell (Y11)
4) Jansen (Y12)
5) Duvall (Y12)
6) Kearns (Y12)
7) Lynch (Y12)
8) Titmuss (Y11)
9) Haldane (Y12)
10) Caputo (Y11)
11) Afeaki (Y11)
12) Endemann (Y12)
13) Dellow (Y11)
14) Kaloterakis (Y12)
15) Lewis (Y11)

For Shore posted by HoldingOn #51

1. Luke Edwards (1sts)
2. Jock Livingston (2nds)
3. Alex Groth (2nds)
4. Ben Wilkins (16As)/James Hunt (3rds)
5. Charlie Wilkinson (16As)
6. Aaron Doyle (2nds)
7. Ed Collard (1sts)
8. Max Burrows (1sts)
9. Tom Simeon (3rds)
10. Max Sinclair (1sts)/ Harry Moses (16As)
11. Reece Boltman (3rds/2nds)
12. Max Sinclair (1sts)/ Jack Hondros (injured)
13. Daniel Jackson (16As)/ Ralph Mitchell (3rds)
14. ?
15. Blake Rixon (2nds)

Riverview, I will give it a crack but have limited knowledge and would happily defer to others closer to the action. So please fill in the blanks. No idea who is on pathways or year 12.

1 ?
2 Will Mclennan
3 ?
4 Saxon Gillies
5 Jack Hogan
6 ?
7 ?
8 Charlie Rorke
9 Rory Kennedy
10 ?
11Matt Dutaillis
12 Dom Easy
13 Cameron Fish
14 Tom Glascott
15 Angus Bell​

 

[Quick Hands]

the scholarship debate makes it sound there are multiply recipients in each 1st xv side??? Anyone care to put a number (without naming individual ) for each side for the predicted sides for 2017??

Depends if you are talking about Brisbane or Sydney.

In Brisbane, certain schools scholarship almost all of their top team in.

It's not so widespread in Sydney, but still exists.

 

[CNorth]

start with Sydney GPS as there have been a lot of mud slinging. I was interested if there was any factual information to back it up. Would be interested to see a AAGPS vs CAS comparison.

 

[Armchair Selector]

Perhaps park this discussion until teams are selected. On that list posted there are a number of "? or bracketed players".

Not sure how the mods would view "naming names". But if you are looking to "out" particular schools I think it may become fairly obvious.

 

[CNorth]

not asking for names... or to out any school. Just asking those that continually say it is rampant to back it up..

 

[Quick Hands]

not asking for names. or to out any school. Just asking those that continually say it is rampant to back it up..

Is anyone saying that it is "rampant" in Sydney?

It is in Brisbane, but it's within the rules up there.

 

[Quick Hands]

For AAGPS, if you don't enforce your code, why bother having it!

Because the code, with all it's imperfections and the difficulty in enforcing it is a far better option than the open slather approach that the Brisbane GPS went with.

 

[CNorth]

Is anyone saying that it is "rampant" in Sydney?

It is in Brisbane, but it's within the rules up there.

I agree with you re Brisbane However there has been a lot of commentary that differs from our view in regard to AAGPS.. Seems to be a go to position for a lot of CAS commentators

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

wow ... this thread seems to have died of natural causes ... ie old age?!

in an attempt to resuscitate it ... with a New Headmaster .... I hope from a Waverley College perspective they bring back scholarships ... actually what I would like to see is bursaries ... ie ONLY scholarships for those with low financial means

under the previous WavCol headmaster, scholarships all but evaporated, you had to seemingly tick every box ... and rightly or wrongly they evaporated

and it became open season on Waverley's sporting talent

now I am not one to reward "knuckleheads" ... so I think having quite a few boxes to tick is fair enough.... however should be at the headmasters discretion IMHO

just because you are good at rugby or whatever other sport means nothing ... if you just a neanderthal, or any early developer ... with a bad attitude and on a collision course with ###

and I am also one that thinks WavCol's academics are not far off diabolical ... certainly relative to earlier generations

so genuine academic scholarships , and/or all rounder scholarships

and personally I don't see that they can't be funded by old boys

anyway think WavCol has a great opportunity here , and by all accounts a great new leader

now whether the blessed Edmund Rice gives him the necessary free hand to make some needed changes, time will tell

 

[BAR]

In a sport that's struggling for participants, robbing "lesser" schools' Rugby programs by throwing scholarships around does nothing for the sport and is purely about the egos of those schools who employ such scholarships. It simultaneously makes other school's programs less skilled, and less attractive for other participants. Personally, I think a good Rugby school is one that aims to develop players and grow the sport, not one that buys talent to chase trophies.

I'd walk away from a Rugby club that thought this was the way to operate their junior Rugby teams and I don't see why anyone should view schools differently.

 

[carl spackler]

In a sport that's struggling for participants, robbing "lesser" schools' Rugby programs by throwing scholarships around does nothing for the sport and is purely about the egos of those schools who employ such scholarships. It simultaneously makes other school's programs less skilled, and less attractive for other participants. Personally, I think a good Rugby school is one that aims to develop players and grow the sport, not one that buys talent to chase trophies.

I'd walk away from a Rugby club that thought this was the way to operate their junior Rugby teams and I don't see why anyone should view schools differently.

Extremely well said BAR. Apart from the damage done to the school losing the talent, I'd hate to be a 'subsidising parent' at the gaining school.