School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Hugh Jarse]

The fourth argument is that concentrating all the resources in one group of schools does little to grow and spread the virtues of our wonderful game, and that when all the effective competition from the other associations has been eliminated, who do they compete against.

When was the last time that CAS or CHS genuinely challenged an AAGPS rep team? This one sided domination does little to prepare those chosen for games when they are up against genuinely tough and skilled opposition wearing Black, Saffer green or even those from the other side of the equator.

 

[I like to watch]

School sport is supposed to be the best of ours against the best of yours.
Not the best we could recruit.
If that's the way it is,why have an age limit?

They have all lost the plot.
I doubt any Shute Shield teams train as often,on a weekly basis as many GPS teams. That's just wrong.

 

[Snort]

The fourth argument is that concentrating all the resources in one group of schools does little to grow and spread the virtues of our wonderful game, and that when all the effective competition from the other associations has been eliminated, who do they compete against.

When was the last time that CAS or CHS genuinely challenged an AAGPS rep team? This one sided domination does little to prepare those chosen for games when they are up against genuinely tough and skilled opposition wearing Black, Saffer green or even those from the other side of the equator.

That's drawing a long bow, I think. It's true that the GPS representative team has won regularly in recent years, but that was also true in the dim, distant days of no scholarships. Before the mid-1970s it was unimaginable that CAS would ever beat GPS (and sometimes GPS only condescended to play its 2nds against the CAS 1sts). But those are two games in the season, and the cream of the crop go on to be well tested in junior representative games.

 

[Snort]

School sport is supposed to be the best of ours against the best of yours.
Not the best we could recruit.

But why is that the rule, necessarily? I know some people like it that way, but it isn't a self-evident truth - it needs to be justified. For example, in the United States, high schools and colleges unashamedly recruit footballers on scholarships, and (with a few exceptions) take great pride in the results.

As for training more than Shute Shield teams, this is hardly new. Why do you think Joeys won all those premierships back in the day? They trained harder and longer than anyone else, that's how.

 

[I like to watch]

I thought I made my point.
If there are no restrictions,and you don't really need to be a genuine product of the School,then why should there be an age limit?
Where does it end?
Actually it might make more sense for a School to field a side of 26 yo,old boys,than a team of mercenaries who just happen to be under 18.
Especially when many of these mercenaries are not in fact being Schooled,and leave School without an ATAR.

 

[Snort]

I thought I made my point.
If there are no restrictions,and you don't really need to be a genuine product of the School,then why should there be an age limit?
Where does it end?
Actually it might make more sense for a School to field a side of 26 yo,old boys,than a team of mercenaries who just happen to be under 18.
Especially when many of these mercenaries are not in fact being Schooled,and leave School without an ATAR.

But that point makes no sense, because the age limit applies even if you are a "genuine product of the school". When I was in Year 8, our school captain repeated Year 12 for academic reasons, having crashed in the HSC on his first go. He was a decent footballer but turned 19 during his second go at Year 12. He'd been at the school since kindergarten, but (under today's rules) would have been too old for schoolboy football.

I'm afraid you're using an orange to answer the question of what kind of apple we want.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Good point about Joeys training practices. More practice usually results in better acquisition and retention of skills.

Listen to one of the Ella's talk about their childhood and they will tell you that, while there was daylight, they would invariably have been running around somewhere in Lapa with a bunch of their mates playing some form of footy.

Their "magical" skills were acquired with endless repetition. In their case without a grown up standing over them teaching them the latest catch and pass or 3 vs 3 attack drill from a book.

At a boarding school, where the houses have ovals nearby, there is plenty of opportunity for structured and unstructured rugby and rugbylike games to be played, and for boys to practice their skills. This can give them a significant advantage over the Day Schools.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Boy X from Dubbo suddenly gets the chance to complete his education at a school with great facilities and good opportunities in the classroom, if he cares about that, and on the sporting field.

There's not a lot of evidence to support that proposition - since you're complaining about evidence.
On your other points it is not about moral virtue or otherwise in winning with home grown products for me its actually about a ridiculous obsession that is harming Australian rugby generally by further narrowing the sources of players in part by warehousing them in AAGPS schools.
Kids who might have played 2 years of CHS get 1 year in a school 1st XV, for instance. Australian rugby would be better if that kid got the experience in year 11 and really produced in year 12 and if he did so more kids in the CHS system might want to play the game - in part because it would not be seen as the preserve of 4 GPS schools and in part because such a kid blazes a path through the NSW Schools sides to Oz Schools and beyond.
Others have done the figures and shown the decline in non private school oz schools players.

 

[Snort]

Listen to one of the Ella's talk about their childhood and they will tell you that, while there was daylight, they would invariably have been running around somewhere in Lapa with a bunch of their mates playing some form of footy.

Their "magical" skills were acquired with endless repetition. In their case without a grown up standing over them teaching them the latest catch and pass or 3 vs 3 attack drill from a book.

Up to a point. Geoff Mould had a bit to do with it, too.

 

[Snort]

There's not a lot of evidence to support that proposition - since you're complaining about evidence.

I'm not "complaining" about evidence. I am saying that there are a lot of knee-jerk positions being adopted here without a great deal of thought behind them.

But, that said, there are plenty of stories of boys who benefited from their opportunities after being "recruited". One example that comes to mind was the guy who was lured from Narrabri in Year 10, after which he represented NSW Schools and later played First Grade Rugby whilst also graduating with a degree in Commerce. He's now Director of Rugby at Sydney University. Would he have done all that if he'd finished school in Narrabri? Maybe. But finishing school in the city certainly helped. And he's not the only one.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Would he have done all that if he'd finished school in Narrabri? Maybe. But finishing school in the city certainly helped. And he's not the only one.

Chris Latham went OK

 

[Snort]

Chris Latham went OK

It isn't a zero-sum game, though, is it? And what's Chris Latham's degree in?

 

[Snort]

And with that, I'm abandoning this thread for another year. I won't miss much - when I come back it will all be much the same.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It isn't a zero-sum game, though, is it? And what's Chris Latham's degree in?

According to wikipedia he is still playing .

What is it doing for Australian rugby is the real point?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And with that, I'm abandoning this thread for another year. I won't miss much - when I come back it will all be much the same.

To an extent.

Actors will be different.

Targets could be different.

Arguments for and against will be the same.

Actors will be strongly of the view that their post will be as fresh as a mountain stream, not simply a rehash of a near identially indignant post 40n pages ago.

 

[Boof]

Very

country parents make the choices to send kids away in year 10 often because they are playing their chosen sport
(not just rugby) at state and au level or beyond and the sheer amount of travel these families do to sydney and beyond is huge and expensive . in return they get a good structure for their academic studies too . the boarding schools need the students as much as parents need bursaries to balance the costs and should not be chastised or penalised by talk of stand down quotas on these forums, for seeking out the best pathways for them. country kids bring a lot to these city schools in their attitude often bred from a more grounded upbringing than city kids

Very well put

 

[Quick Hands]

Thanks Quick Hands. So when Whistleblower states 8 TSC 1st XV players are imports, he is saying 8 are on some form of bursary?

I wouldn't like to speak on his behalf, but perhaps he is.

Certainly, I can tell you that 2 of the numbers that he supplied in post #4375 are.

 

[Quick Hands]

The rules say no imports, imports being kids recruited for sporting prowess.
The mistake made in b'ball was to recruit the whole team in in 1 go. New in rugby showed how by careful selection you could build a a team in which all but 2 were imports and by the time everyone realized it was too late.
If there are 8 in the TSC 1sts this is not the result of recruiting but of irregularities: and there's no law against them.

Interestingly Scots have quite a good rugby programme in place, so the current 1st XV really shows a lack of faith in their own systems and a desperation not to leave anything to chance in pursuit of victory.

New seem to have gone to the Hawkes doctrine of a couple a year to avoid humiliating defeat, rather than a process of world domination.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Interestingly Scots have quite a good rugby programme in place.

What do you mean?
I mean what do you call the program and what is quite good about it - serious question and not having a go

 

[couldabeen]

And with that, I'm abandoning this thread for another year. I won't miss much - when I come back it will all be much the same.

Dear Snort - when you read this it will have been one year since you wandered into this thread, demonstrated your superiority to your own satisfaction, and then signed off like a prick.
You remind me of that bloke who knows everything - so much so - he even knows the name of the Unknown Soldier.
You weren't missed much.
Bye now.