School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[bjtoby]

As a Queenslander and old boy of a GPS school up here I think the Rugby scholarships, and sporting scholarships do need some review, but shouldn't be scrapped, maybe you have to be enrolled year previous, to play first 15 and no scholarships after term 1 grade 11 (My brother, who finished over a decade ago went off his own bat, no scholarship to swim and do track and field, in grade 11 because the program attracted him, i know many boys who did the same within last 5 or so years). As a college Football fan i found CanadianRugby points interesting, I don't think we want to turn Nudgee into Notre Dame or Churchie into USC when we look at the way they recruit these players and the way they are treated, These guys are 17-18 years old. We don't want a Cam Newton style scandal, and if we keep allowing the one up manship to go on it could happen. I think a lot of schools like to point fingers and stories get out of hand. Lets just play Rugby.

 

[twenty seven]

So mostly what I´m hearing is that people don´t like these scholarships because it means other schools just can´t compete. Why not?
I would also like to know why too!
There are all manner of 'scholarships' handed out yearly too better the schools name and preformance. A lot of the schools vet their 'scholarships' very closely and they look at the 'big picture' and just not the 'here and now', of those they offer scholarships to. Not all sporting scholarships are handed out that question the integrity of the school; meaning - not all rugby players are bigger and more brutal. Yes there are those few schools that do that. At the same time there are many that choose an athlete that they can help and assist in their holistic development as well. They do use their integrity, they just don't shout it from the roof tops.
I know of a many who received these sporting and general scholarships; have gone on with their sports; some are bettering their lives academically (which they would never have had the opportunity to do prior to the scholarship), and there are those who have gone back to their community and are assisting them. I can understand some peoples angst BUT it is not all schools that use lads for the 'here and now' and wash their hands of them after that.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

I have to agree 27.

The players ability gets the invite but it is the person, and all that he is, that eventually gets the scholarship

 

[gdog9610]

and kings

 

[gdog9610]

what sort of scolarships are they on as in full scholarships half or quartor?

 

[twenty seven]

Most I have heard are over fifty but under a hundred per cent. Some get around a seventy five per cent deal with a few perks. Only full scholarships Ive heard of are an overseas, indeginous and a truly talented lad scholarships and not all in rugby.. Depends on the school too I suppose. Good on them for giving some of these kids an opportunity.

 

[gdog9610]

yer there are still downsides but of course

 

[lincoln]

Both are indeed. Both are having their fees paid by Wests Tigers and West Harbour. It is an arrangement where everyone benefits.
Newington has a deal with both clubs that allows them to "park" their star recruits at the school, the boys get a great education and then play with the clubs for at least 3 years after leaving. This is legitimate and above board. Other schools have done the past with one or two players, newington though have made a much longer and broader arrangement. For the record I work within the AAGPS system and have first hand knowledge of this practice from a Wests/Tigers board member.

Ipso facto the kids are semi-professionals given they are being remunerated for playing rugby in the form of fees being paid - how does this fit within the AAGPS amateur framework?

 

[scampi]

what sort of scolarships are they on as in full scholarships half or quartor?

Generally the parent pays the tuition fees and the school will fund the books, uniforms, extras such as overseas sporting trips and the boarding fees.

 

[angrydog]

I think the only positive aspect of rugby scholarships in the GPS is that at least most of the schools are offering them. I went to Marist Canberra years ago. Back then the ASC comp which comprised all the ACT private schools such as Marist, Eddies, Grammar etc was extremely even and competitive and no one school was a certainty to win each year. In the late 90's and entire 2000's St Edmunds adopted an aggressive scholarship program whereby they targeted players from junior sides at the Queanbeyan and Wests Lions clubs. These clubs traditionaly had a high number of Pacific Islander players in both the junior and senior levels. Suprise suprise soon enough Eddies were full of Pacific Islander players such as the Fainga brothers as well as many others and were dominating the other local shools.

The result of this has devastated ACT junior rugby to this very day. Eddies dominated everybody and regularly thrashed it's old foe Marist. The ASC comp is virtually non existant in comparison to it's previous format. Schools like St Pats Goulburn (now Trinity) are now just a rugby memory and other schools such as Daramalan are also dwindling. The ACT schools side get thrashed each year at the state champs. Marist Canberra, who have produced a large number of Aussie Schools reps now have more kids playing Soccer than rugby!! All the schools play in the local U18 comp which quite frankly is awful. The ultimate problem was however, that Eddies invincibility in the ACT put them in to some kind of cocoon whereby they dominated the ACT to the point that the other schools began to shut up shop and they were unable to get any competitive matches week in week out as they did before in the old, and very even, ASC comp. They believed their success was genuine and could extend past the borders into NSW. They were wrong. Does anybody remember the hammering they got from Joeys in about 05 or 06. It clearly showed that stacking sides, dominating comps localy every year, and having staff from the school as selectors for the Aussie Schools side to ensure your list of reps grew every year, did not mean you were a rugby powerhouse.

Thankfully the aggressive recruitment has stopped to an extent, largely due to a new and seemingly more ethical Principal at the school. The moral of this story is that scholarships and recruitment is only of benefit if everybody is on it. When member schools are not in on it then those schools who do recruit only end up destroying the integrity and competitive edge of the competition they play in. I would be very concerned about the GPS as already schools such as Grammar and High have become a walk over. Scholarships should be monitored and controlled so that they are given to needy fellas who will genuinely benefit from the opportunity.

 

[FTS]

All the schools play in the local U18 comp which quite frankly is awful.

Good post, I agree with most of what you said. I think the way Canberra integrated its public sides and school sides though is starting to come good. The 18s comp is still even, with in 2010 most teams beating each other depending who was better on the day. This was also proven when the two public sides Wests and Tuggeranong met in the final, defeating Eddies and Marist in the Semi's respectively. The fact there was no powerhouse school in the final for over 10 years i think in a way was a positive for ACT rugby, showing you do not have to attend a private school to play successful rugby. The fact that the scholarships were obviously not involved clearly has created a better comp imo.

 

[Torn Hammy]

The new headmaster of Waverley stopped financial support of all sports in 2004.

I think you will find that the NCAA and most US colleges insist that their students on sports' scholarships achieve a minimum GPA, or grade point average, (about 2.8 out of 4.00) or they lose their benefits. They will get outstanding assistance with their studies but they are expected to be serious about getting a degree. The universities are extremely proud of their student/athletes and those with high GPA's are acknowledged nationally. Australian schools and unis should follow their example.

 

[Rob42]

Hmmm, the comparison to NCAA football gives me the creeps, as I mentioned earlier. Trying to link sporting (or other) scholarships to academic results or other parameters across schools would be fraught with red tape and more temptation to bend rules to keep the talent.

 

[baldingwingforward]

Great post angry dog - some very well made points and observations. However i can't agree with your statement below.

I think the only positive aspect of rugby scholarships in the GPS is that at least most of the schools are offering them. .

The big problem in the Sydney GPS is the fact that only some of the schools are offering Rugby scholarships. If everyone was doing it it wouldn't be such of a problem... But you have those schools who follow the rules, and then the other schools that think the rules don't apply to them.

The basketball competition in particular as turned in to a farce as schools just try and outdo each other in getting players in. Particularly amusing this year and they stilll couldn't win a solo premiership!

Newington and Scots seem to be the worst offenders by far as they get boys in for all Sports. Kings don't seem to care about anything other than Rugby and Aths. Joeys strategically gets in Indigenous boys to play rugby but their importing is far less than many people make out. (i'm talking about now - not what might have happened in years gone by)

That leaves Grammar, Shore and View who don't do any importing at all. If those schools win premierships it is far more significant as they have done it with what they have - not by buying players in. Admittedly View in particular and Shore to a lesser degree have big numbers, but their succes is home grown not bought. Surely far more satisfying for the school, students and coaches alike, when you know that you've won fair. Scholarships don't always work either - just ask the kings 1st Xvs of 2008 and 2010 in particular!

I reckon the GPS headmasters just need to grow some balls and start getting tough on it. The rules are clear enough - i.e. Sporting scholarships are not supposed to happen so they need to stop turning a blind eye to it and letting certain schools get away with it!

 

[angrydog]

I think headmasters of any school need to get tough on it. I have no problem with one or two guys being bought in to the schools to improve the quality of the side. My worries stem from my own experience with eddies where there were sides with any where up to 8 - 10 guys on some form of scholarship. As I said, they totaly destroyed the ASC comp, and whats more eventually had all ACT sides 'expelled' from the Waratah Shield (I know the GPS guys will cringe and tell me the Waratah shield is an inferior comp...and I agree. It was always more satisfying to play and beat the Joeys and Riverviews of this world as we did on occasion in the late 80's and 90's).

I recognise that last years U18 comp in the ACT was won by a club side, however, dont discount the fact that many of the club sides are now made up of 'scholarship' players who are bought to Canberra by clubs and sent to school at places like Erindale College.

Maybe I am old fashioned but I really like the idea of 'playing with the cattle' you have got and focusing on good coaching, player development and most importantly at schools level - team spirit.

 

[gtjack]

It would be interesting to hear some QLDers views on how the scholarship system is working. QLD keep smashing us in the Schools comp, so it seems to be producing the best rugby players. But has it been good for the spread of rugby, and has it fostered resentment from schools not willing to spend $ on rugby scholarships (e.g., BGS?).

BGS has become one of the most willing to give scholarships, they're first xv this year has about 3 players on scholarship

 

[gtjack]

As a Queenslander and old boy of a GPS school up here I think the Rugby scholarships, and sporting scholarships do need some review, but shouldn't be scrapped, maybe you have to be enrolled year previous, to play first 15 and no scholarships after term 1 grade 11 (My brother, who finished over a decade ago went off his own bat, no scholarship to swim and do track and field, in grade 11 because the program attracted him, i know many boys who did the same within last 5 or so years). As a college Football fan i found CanadianRugby points interesting, I don't think we want to turn Nudgee into Notre Dame or Churchie into USC when we look at the way they recruit these players and the way they are treated, These guys are 17-18 years old. We don't want a Cam Newton style scandal, and if we keep allowing the one up manship to go on it could happen. I think a lot of schools like to point fingers and stories get out of hand. Lets just play Rugby.

It's too late. I've seen both Nudgee's and Churchie's First XV's in person this year, and they already are the equivalent of Notre Dame and USC. Or maybe, more accurately, Ohio State and Auburn.

 

[lewis1234]

I go to an all GPS school, and I reckon its extremely unfair watching your mates lose to a team of imports. They work their arses off only to be beaten soundly to an opposition that doesnt deserve to be there

 

[qwerty51]

What do you mean doesn't deserve to be there?

They got beaten by players better than them. Face it.

 

[lily]

Nothing about your post makes sense.