SANZAR/Super rugby future format

[rustycruiser]

JON didn't say the CC/NPC wasn't professional rugby did he? I thought he said that SANZAR couldn't support 2 levels of professional rugby ie Super rugby and the professional domestic comps in SA/NZ?

"The reality for all three unions is that we can only afford one level of professional rugby, which is Super rugby. Currie Cup, NPC and Premier Rugby in Australia is not the professional game.'

 

[PaarlBok]

It look like ONeil dont understand CC rugby at all then. The CC will go on thats forsure and contracts have been sign till 2015. Thats a fact and Saru wont back down on that one. This bring it to three ways forward:
1. We (SA)pack up and pull out of the S14 and get another compo in its place,
2. Leave the compo as it is or
3. Give Jons his team but he will have to give the Vikings or Spears also.

If 3 is the way forward its a win, win situation and try and put a shorter or more profitable package together.

Well I hope it stay as it is but dont think ONeil think the same. I really dont care about the S14 and they can chuck it as far as myself go BUT dont touch the CC.

 

[PaarlBok]

It's not that the smaller provinces will go away, Paarl. Just shift them to the B side of the Currie Cup. Realistically, the Valke, Griquas and Boland belong there anyway. The players they have will still play and develop, and get poached by the bigger unions just like now. The B Currie Cup can start like it does now in June/July, overlapping the 3N. The A Currie Cup will start after the 3N when they get the Boks back. 6 strong teams slog it out in two months, rather than the 5 month long ordeal now involving far too many insipid matches and teams. Face it, the Currie Cup is an after thought until the Boks get back.

Although the above is all meaningless. Because the 14 provinces control the SARU board, they would never allow themselves to be relegated. We are stuck with the current (crap) structure.

Dont agree Rusty. Griekwas will beat one of that big ones at the Groot Gat yearly. Boland do the same. Myself pretty glad the Leopards in the CC from this year and sure produce their Bokke and good players over the years. The Leopards have a very strong structure and a very good platform with the Pukke at Potch. Boland like I state earlier provide the extra platform of young players from Maties and this region. Trust me if they can get a good sponsor they will be just as strong as WP or the other big 5. They prove they can play in the CC and with extra coin to hold on their players they will be up there. Boland is also the big provider of the coloured players over the years. Most of them playing now for the other franchises come from the Boland and trust me they are big on rugby.

 

[Blue]

It's not that the smaller provinces will go away, Paarl. Just shift them to the B side of the Currie Cup. Realistically, the Valke, Griquas and Boland belong there anyway. The players they have will still play and develop, and get poached by the bigger unions just like now. The B Currie Cup can start like it does now in June/July, overlapping the 3N. The A Currie Cup will start after the 3N when they get the Boks back. 6 strong teams slog it out in two months, rather than the 5 month long ordeal now involving far too many insipid matches and teams. Face it, the Currie Cup is an after thought until the Boks get back.

Although the above is all meaningless. Because the 14 provinces control the SARU board, they would never allow themselves to be relegated. We are stuck with the current (crap) structure.

Dont agree Rusty. Griekwas will beat one of that big ones at the Groot Gat yearly. Boland do the same. Myself pretty glad the Leopards in the CC from this year and sure produce their Bokke and good players over the years. The Leopards have a very strong structure and a very good platform with the Pukke at Potch. Boland like I state earlier provide the extra platform of young players from Maties and this region. Trust me if they can get a good sponsor they will be just as strong as WP or the other big 5. They prove they can play in the CC and with extra coin to hold on their players they will be up there. Boland is also the big provider of the coloured players over the years. Most of them playing now for the other franchises come from the Boland and trust me they are big on rugby.

Funny you should say that. I think it's about fifteen years now that the number of teams in the main CC has been debated and we are always told that the minnows will get better, hold their own etc etc. It's rubbish.

Year in and year out they get hammered. Sure there is maybe the odd upset but that happens everywhere. Premier League soccer teams on the odd occasion lose to a second division side in the FA Cup.

I don't think any of these guys are going to get a big sponsor any time soon. The big provinces in SA are havign enough trouble getting enough good sponsors.

These teams will continue to produce good players. The really good ones will leave and go to the big 5. It's not different to what they are doing right now.

While it's novel of you to defend the small guys, times have moved on and SARU has to follow.

To continue making rugby stronger in SA the best way forward is a smaller Currie Cup. Which is exactly why SARU will do the opposite. Back to the future!

 

[Scotty]

Well I hope it stay as it is but dont think ONeil think the same. I really dont care about the S14 and they can chuck it as far as myself go BUT dont touch the CC.

PB,

Do you think rugby in SA, and the performances of the national team will get stronger or weaker if SA pull out of the S14?

 

[rustycruiser]

Well I hope it stay as it is but dont think ONeil think the same. I really dont care about the S14 and they can chuck it as far as myself go BUT dont touch the CC.

PB,

Do you think rugby in SA, and the performances of the national team will get stronger or weaker if SA pull out of the S14?

Look how well isolation did us in the 80s. We came back as world beaters.



Oh, wait.

:lmao:

 

[mark_s]

Well I hope it stay as it is but dont think ONeil think the same. I really dont care about the S14 and they can chuck it as far as myself go BUT dont touch the CC.

PB,

Do you think rugby in SA, and the performances of the national team will get stronger or weaker if SA pull out of the S14?

Look how well isolation did us in the 80s. We came back as world beaters.



Oh, wait.

:lmao:

The difference this time would be that there would be many competitions trying to poach your players for big $ - not something SA had to worry about in the 80s

 

[Biffo]

Well I hope it stay as it is but dont think ONeil think the same. I really dont care about the S14 and they can chuck it as far as myself go BUT dont touch the CC.

PB,

Do you think rugby in SA, and the performances of the national team will get stronger or weaker if SA pull out of the S14?

Look how well isolation did us in the 80s. We came back as world beaters.



Oh, wait.

:lmao:

ummmmmm ..... 3-26 mean anything to anyone?

 

[rustycruiser]

Apparently sarcasm hasn't made it to the Antipodes yet.

 

[Sully]

I got it Rusty!

 

[Biffo]

Apparently sarcasm hasn't made it to the Antipodes yet.

It has, Mate, it has. I was well aware of the sarcasm in your comment but needed a line for my hook :fishing

 

[PaarlBok]

Funny you should say that. I think it's about fifteen years now that the number of teams in the main CC has been debated and we are always told that the minnows will get better, hold their own etc etc. It's rubbish.

Year in and year out they get hammered. Sure there is maybe the odd upset but that happens everywhere. Premier League soccer teams on the odd occasion lose to a second division side in the FA Cup.

I don't think any of these guys are going to get a big sponsor any time soon. The big provinces in SA are havign enough trouble getting enough good sponsors.

These teams will continue to produce good players. The really good ones will leave and go to the big 5. It's not different to what they are doing right now.

While it's novel of you to defend the small guys, times have moved on and SARU has to follow.

To continue making rugby stronger in SA the best way forward is a smaller Currie Cup. Which is exactly why SARU will do the opposite. Back to the future!

Jessie Blue we are on 8 at the moment. There have to be a top lot or bottom lot in any competition. If I look at what the Stormers did to the Lions on the weekend, swear Griekwas would have done better.

Boland beat WP more then often over the years.

Back to the isolation qoute from Rusty. Think our lot coming from those days will cherish the CC just for that. It was our own World Cup those days.

In my view it produce a special kind of rugby or our own unique kind of dish to the rugby table.

 

[Blue]

In my view it produce a special kind of rugby or our own unique kind of dish to the rugby table.

Sure. Bit I don't want it back. We lived in a bubble. We had no bloody idea and only our ignorance allowed us to enjoy the rugby. Oh and we had no bloody choice so we pretended it was wonderful. I remember the envy I felt every time I watched a test in those days. I got taken to Twickenham as a ten year old and saw the AB's beat the Poms. I had never experienced rugby like that and until then I sat in the stands at Loftus every bloody Saturday thinking ours was the best. Well it wasn't. I loved it and aspired to it, don't get me wrong. I still harbored ambitions to play for the Bulls after that and count the three games I played at Loftus as a teenager as some of the best experiences of my life.

Seeing overseas test rugby live in those days was a rude awakening for a little Dutchman who though the world started at the Jukskei River and ended at the Magaliesberg.

Then maybe create a promotion / relegation system where there is a chance for smaller teams.

I don't know what the answer is. I do know that something has to give to make this thing work and SA need to catch a wakeup and go to the negotiation table willing to compromise. The CC is special but it's not holy. Retain it in some form but allow the bigger picture to work for greater gain. Joining a NH comp will have a negative impact on our rugby. It's just dumb.

Marinos' latest utterances about the Spears is pathetic. Hard to decide who is the biggest fucktard. Marinos or O'Neill.

 

[cyclopath]

Good post Blue.
Isolation / regression is not the answer. Any Kiwis or Saffers who think they'll be better off telling JON to fark off and going it alone with some bi-annual tour back and forth and shrunken Super SANZ rugby is kidding. Ultimately the strength of the individuals would be lesser, including ours.
It is no coincidence that SH rugby holds the prominence it does, and Super rugby and the 3N are a big part of this.
The main protagonists need to pull their heads in a bit, and some of those foaming at the mouth about domestic comps need to realise 2 levels of fully pro rugby will be hard to maintain. Doesn't mean they should be abolished, but the format may need to change.
Personally I want to see all SH teams strong, not just Aus.
Can't answer the question about the biggest fucktard though.

 

[PaarlBok]

Sure. Bit I don't want it back. We lived in a bubble. We had no bloody idea and only our ignorance allowed us to enjoy the rugby. Oh and we had no bloody choice so we pretended it was wonderful. I remember the envy I felt every time I watched a test in those days. I got taken to Twickenham as a ten year old and saw the AB's beat the Poms. I had never experienced rugby like that and until then I sat in the stands at Loftus every bloody Saturday thinking ours was the best. Well it wasn't. I loved it and aspired to it, don't get me wrong. I still harbored ambitions to play for the Bulls after that and count the three games I played at Loftus as a teenager as some of the best experiences of my life.

Seeing overseas test rugby live in those days was a rude awakening for a little Dutchman who though the world started at the Jukskei River and ended at the Magaliesberg.

Myself had to go in 1999 to the Milleneum Stadium to get out of the same sort of thing. Always thought Newlands is the be all, looking at the numbers it still is. :nta:

Well the way we bring our youngsters through the CC it is the be all for us. Structurewise we'll be dead if we dont have it but the cherry is our rugby still make money out of this. Thats the important one these days.

In my view the S14 is just a bonus and ja we'll survive without it. Will be sad if we depart but defnitely not the be all for our rugby. Many times I think we should just quit S14 and TriNations and go back to CC and tours. Will be better for our rugby. We lost a lot of rugby values in the professional era and learned a lot of bad habits.

 

[cyclopath]

Sure. Bit I don't want it back. We lived in a bubble. We had no bloody idea and only our ignorance allowed us to enjoy the rugby. Oh and we had no bloody choice so we pretended it was wonderful. I remember the envy I felt every time I watched a test in those days. I got taken to Twickenham as a ten year old and saw the AB's beat the Poms. I had never experienced rugby like that and until then I sat in the stands at Loftus every bloody Saturday thinking ours was the best. Well it wasn't. I loved it and aspired to it, don't get me wrong. I still harbored ambitions to play for the Bulls after that and count the three games I played at Loftus as a teenager as some of the best experiences of my life.

Seeing overseas test rugby live in those days was a rude awakening for a little Dutchman who though the world started at the Jukskei River and ended at the Magaliesberg.

Myself had to go in 1999 to the Milleneum Stadium to get out of the same sort of thing. Always thought Newlands is the be all, looking at the numbers it still is. :nta:

Well the way we bring our youngsters through the CC it is the be all for us. Structurewise we'll be dead if we dont have it but the cherry is our rugby still make money out of this. Thats the important one these days.

In my view the S14 is just a bonus and ja we'll survive without it. Will be sad if we depart but defnitely not the be all for our rugby. Many times I think we should just quit S14 and TriNations and go back to CC and tours. Will be better for our rugby. We lost a lot of rugby values in the professional era and learned a lot of bad habits.

All very well, PB, but the rest of the world is not set up for long tours as in the past (Lions notwithstanding). Nobody says it is the be all and end all for you guys, and sure you'd survive, but I think you'd be worse off for the loss of S14 and 3N.

 

[PaarlBok]

You mean worse between the three SH countries or for our rugby?

 

[Ash]

You mean worse between the three SH countries or for our rugby?

Worse for all involved.

The loss of the S14 money would likely see a loss of players to clubs with money and in a country with a stronger currency than the rand (which is nearly every top rugby playing country right now). Even if that doesn't eventuate, the quality of the Currie Cup comp, on itself, won't compare to the international comps like the Henieken Cup and Super/Pacific-whatevers. Plus, there are no real windows for the long tours anymore with privately owned clubs dicking international teams in the NH. SA would be the one team every year wanting a long tour, and they'd have a few lean years where they either just couldn't get a decent tour, or they get dicked and play silly "2nd/3rd XVs", like the NH sends here.

No doubt the Super or Pacific-whatever results from the loss of SA would be weaker in terms of quality of well, and they'd miss the SuperSport money. But they'd still have expansion options - Argentina, etc.

Sorry, but I think it's a dream scenario where SA rugby could go back to just a local comp and think they will not suffer as a result.

 

[PaarlBok]

Rugby in this country is bigger then you can ever imagen. Our balance is right, starting with the supporter & culture. No matter which team that plays the Stormers, the Saffers will keep on drifting into Newlands and watching their TV.

 

[Lindommer]

another sensible missive from Wayne Smith, in Saturday's Australian

IF compromise is intended to leave everyone feeling bitter and ripped off, the SANZAR board meeting had been a huge success. The South Africans, in particular, were smouldering at what had just unfolded. Yes, they had succeeded in having the expanded Super rugby competition scaled back from 22 weeks to 17 to protect their precious Currie Cup competition but at the terrible cost of having to concede to Australia the right to field the new expansion team.

SA Rugby boss Hoss O'Reagan dreaded opening the meeting-room door and having to tell the Eastern Cape lobby they had been done over yet again by the silky-tongued eloquence of Australian rugby's head honcho, Neil Johns. Not for the first time, he looked at Johns and a red mist clouded his eyes. Every time they sat down together at a SANZAR board table, Johns somehow outmanoeuvred him. It had happened again just now, as Johns had swayed the meeting by lampooning South Africa's ludicrous proposal that Eastern Cape should be allowed to play in the Australian conference as the expansion team.

Who was going to meet the costs of basing the Southern Kings in Australia for a month, Johns had asked? SANZAR? South Africa? Australia? Don't bet on it! Why, he asked, are we even debating this nonsense when Australia has an even better and cheaper candidate ready and waiting to go-Melbourne? Deep down, O'Reagan realised the folly of his own position but, hey, sometimes in politics you've got to passionately advocate what you don't for a minute believe in. Still, as Johns clinically dissected his insane proposal, O'Reagan's rage mounted. Somehow he managed to control himself but now, as the board members packed up their briefcases and prepared to leave, he could contain himself no longer. Leaning into Johns' face, he growled: "You realise this means war!" Johns smiled back at him coldly. Seriously, the Australian thought, how can you deal with such people? He walked out, thinking no more of O'Reagan's outburst. Which was a big mistake because O'Reagan is not a man to make idle threats.

Barely two weeks later, the war began. The first salvos from the South African fleet-all its ships cunningly disguised as refugee boats to avoid detection-exploded on St Kilda just before dawn. Under cover of the barrage, a swarm of landing craft headed for shore, each crammed with heavily muscled South African rugby players, armed to the teeth. Even as the invasion fleet was in the water, a grim communique was being issued in Johannesburg: "South Africa will not be dictated to or bullied!" it thundered. "We have compromised at every turn. Hence Australia's refusal to allow its sovereignty to be compromised by an Eastern Cape team is provocative and unacceptable. Therefore, as of 8pm (South African time) a state of war exists between our two nations." The invasion commander, General "Outrageous" Whatson, wasn't concerning himself with the diplomatic niceties. He had an objective to capture and destroy, the showpiece of Melbourne's bid, the oddly-named Rectangular Stadium, then get his men evacuated before peak hour and those trams clogged up his schedule.

Suffice to say that when the barrage lifted, the good people of St Kilda were more than a little bemused to see thousands of heavily armed men in rugby jerseys pouring ashore on their iconic beach. But hey, they figured, if it involved rugby, then it didn't involve them. Or so they thought until the heavy machine guns opened fire. Victorian Rugby boss Grey Garry was sound asleep, but still musing in his subconscious whether to appoint John Connolly or Michael Foley as the inaugural Melbourne Super 15 coach, when the phone rang. One of his committee members, out walking his dog, had identified Stormers, Cheetahs and Bulls jerseys on some of the invaders and, terrified, had figured Garry might be able to make some sense of it. In a flash, Garry realised what was happening and where the invasion force was heading. He knew he had to act fast but figured that by the time the South Africans formed up properly, landed tanks and artillery and started their advance up King's Way, peak hour would have begun. That might just give him enough time to alert Johns and round up a few troops of his own. A Melburnian through and through, he knew there was only one thing that could save the day now-the Yarra. If he and a few defenders could just dig in on the strategic approaches to the stadium, Melbourne's mighty moat might slow down the South Africans until help arrived.

Johns, meanwhile, was busily working the phones. The Reds were aware of the South African communique and were already mobilising. So too the Waratahs. The Force, unfortunately, were pinned down for the moment by the Sharks, who had launched a surprise attack on Subiaco Oval in the middle of the Perth night. And for some reason, the Brumbies weren't answering. Little was he to know that the Brumbies had been interred in Johannesburg moments before the declaration of war. There had even been plans to arrest the Australian cricketers at the same time but after their first innings batting collapse, the South African authorities decided it might be in their interests to allow the Newlands Test to proceed. Johns phoned his Kiwi counterpart to invoke the ANZUS treaty, only to be told that New Zealand intended to maintain strict neutrality throughout this intra-SANZAR conflict. And besides, all its players were tied up in NPC trials. Muttering under his breath about the death of the Anzac spirit, Johns got back to Garry who by now was deep in his riverside trench, a wire-guided anti-tank missile launcher in his hands and a motley collection of Pommie expats, Polynesians and home-grown Victorian rugby fanatics by his side. "No surrender!" Johns ordered. Garry and his troops didn't need to be told. Volunteers every one, they had fought too long and too hard to establish Melbourne as a rugby stronghold and they weren't about to give it all up now.

But in the still, crisp morning air, as the ominous clank of enemy tanks grew steadily louder, Garry paused for his last conscious thought before the battle began.

I wonder if we're all taking this just a little bit too seriously.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Well done that man.