Salary cap shenanigans

[Gnostic]

Reducing the salary cap would also punish players. Some would have to take pay cuts or maybe one less contract. It isn't the players fault the team payed more than they were supposed to.

Oh come on. Surely not WJ?

The players who got paid (allegedly) in the roundabout fashion had to have known that they were getting a shady deal. Those players at least have not only breached the rules they have betrayed the trust of their peers. All parties who have any knowledge of corrupt activities are complicit in them unless they take action to report said activity if they are not in a position to actively do something about it such as would be the case for a Senior Manager like a CEO, Coach or Team Manager. Wilfull blindness is not a defence.

 

[Slim 293]

It might get rid of some overpaid underperforming players.......

 

[waratahjesus]

Oh come on. Surely not WJ?

The players who got paid (allegedly) in the roundabout fashion had to have known that they were getting a shady deal. Those players at least have not only breached the rules they have betrayed the trust of their peers. All parties who have any knowledge of corrupt activities are complicit in them unless they take action to report said activity if they are not in a position to actively do something about it such as would be the case for a Senior Manager like a CEO, Coach or Team Manager. Wilfull blindness is not a defence.

So a manager cuts a player a deal and says in your bank account 200000 will cne from the ARU, 150000 from NSWRU, 30000 from power aid, 25000 from randwick don't worry about it, its all sorted and the final figure is 400000 thousand minus my cut. Does the player care?

In the storm salary cap rorting of NRL fame, no player or manager where convicted of any wrong doing. Despite, boats, cars, travel and the same match day payments from random parties being traded.

In this world you refer to where Phil Kearns isn't allowed to give opinion and professional sportsman refuse money I'm sure there is an argument for "betrayal" but all any player has done is get the maximum amount on offer during there negotiations.

Now to my original statement that a decrease in salary cap punishes players. If you can police it that the players payed extra are forced to take pay cuts, then maybe? But have those players actually participated in shady deals or been the beneficiaries of others dealings? They haven't taken money away from teammates,they have taken extra money the franchise offered. So the ARU taking money away from the franchise to spend on contracts may result in players who did nothing wrong ending up with reduced deals.

 

[I like to watch]

Or were they five invoices for $5k each totalling $25k.

The financial authorisations and delegations for a $5k payment in some organisations are at levels well below CEO level. Perhaps Team Manager Level. Oh wait he has gone. Convenient.

There is plenty of speculation here, and some big assumptions that it is the Tahs who are in breach. We will look a little silly if is isn't the Tahs.

$5k would be easy to miss if it was included in player payments, but it wasn't.And it wasn't just one payment of $5k, but a total of $50k
Unless the CEO had included $50k in additional ground hire in his budget forecast,a cursory viewing of the detailed cash flows would highlight the issue.
And Hugh I don't think even WJ is in denial about who it is.

 

[waratahjesus]

8 home games, 2 players, 50 grand.
= $3,125 per home game.

In the scheme of things pretty easy to hide. Zero proof it went directly to a player, could have gone to an agent or through a sponsor. All speculation. But a pretty easy size check to be kept from a CEO if it has been the case.

 

[Richo]

I'm just hoping that the players involved were Rocky and Hangers

 

[waratahjesus]

I'm just hoping that the players involved were Rocky and Hangers

If the players are l.timani and jonojenkins does the opinion of the situation change?

 

[Moses]

I dont think reducing the salary cap would be the smartest choice anyway..

Those responsible deserve to be punished(ie the management), but reducing the salary cap punishes the fans which i don't agree with.

Those responsible should be paying fines out of their bonuses

 

[I like to watch]

Bonuses for those responsible?
it is not normal to be eligible for a bonus when you have been dismissed is it?

 

[Richo]

If the players are l.timani and jonojenkins does the opinion of the situation change?

Nope. Just that I'd rather it was players on their way out...

 

[Hawko]

If its proven then the obvious move is for NSWRU to revoke the license. There'll be grounds in the license agreement to do this if the salary cap has been rorted. Then Nick Farr-Jones & Co get to appoint a whole new Board who can then wipe the slate clean and get the Tahs back on track. Once the salary cap breach is proven, its as easy as ABC.

Then we'll find out if the Board of NSWRFU are any good or not; by whether they grasp the nettle and then whom they choose for the new Tahs Board.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Or were they five invoices for $5k each totalling $25k.

The financial authorisations and delegations for a $5k payment in some organisations are at levels well below CEO level. Perhaps Team Manager Level. Oh wait he has gone. Convenient.

There is plenty of speculation here, and some big assumptions that it is the Tahs who are in breach. We will look a little silly if is isn't the Tahs.

I'm not speculating: I was given clubs and $amounts....I also included a hint in my last post


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[Inside Shoulder]

8 home games, 2 players, 50 grand.
= $3,125 per home game.

In the scheme of things pretty easy to hide. Zero proof it went directly to a player, could have gone to an agent or through a sponsor. All speculation. But a pretty easy size check to be kept from a CEO if it has been the case.

in an organization trying to cut costs? Yeah right.
There's is no suggestion the money goes direct to the player: the players club invoices the tahs for flower arrangements at season launch....the money is then paid to the club who give it to the player.



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[I like to watch]

8 home games, 2 players, 50 grand.
= $3,125 per home game.

In the scheme of things pretty easy to hide. Zero proof it went directly to a player, could have gone to an agent or through a sponsor. All speculation. But a pretty easy size check to be kept from a CEO if it has been the case.

That only makes sense if you think they dump the gate takings in a pile in the dressing room and ask the players to take their share but only their share, each home game.
Pretty sure not even the Tahs are that bad.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

That only makes sense if you think they dump the gate takings in a pile in the dressing room and ask the players to take their share but only their share, each home game.
Pretty sure not even the Tahs are that bad.

No the Tahs are that bad: but the gate has become so small that they dont even need to rely on the honour of the players because there's so little on the floor everyone can see who took what

 

[Dam0]

So a manager cuts a player a deal and says in your bank account 200000 will cne from the ARU, 150000 from NSWRU, 30000 from power aid, 25000 from randwick don't worry about it, its all sorted and the final figure is 400000 thousand minus my cut. Does the player care?

I think this is right. The player will easily be able to argue that the payments he received from his club seemed natural and normal to him. It will be extremely difficult to prove that the player had actual knowledge of any wrongdoing. As you say if they couldn't get the Storm players for wrongdoing, getting these guys will be even more difficult.

 

[Dave Beat]

I think this is right. The player will easily be able to argue that the payments he received from his club seemed natural and normal to him. It will be extremely difficult to prove that the player had actual knowledge of any wrongdoing. As you say if they couldn't get the Storm players for wrongdoing, getting these guys will be even more difficult.

.

Damo, maybe so the part that concerns me, it is alleged it is NSW and a NSW club - a run on back, and a squad forward. If it does appear as WJ aludes to be the Tahs, and a shute sheild "club" are both involved in the wrong doings. So I have 2 concerns;
1 Tah's breaching the cap,
2 The club getting a leg up with player recruitment, and retention.
What this Shenanigans does suggest though is the need for a 3T - If the Tah's are splashing money around, splash it into a 3T comp and it would be a good investment.

 

[Dam0]

.

Damo, maybe so the part that concerns me, it is alleged it is NSW and a NSW club - a run on back, and a squad forward. If it does appear as WJ aludes to be the Tahs, and a shute sheild "club" are both involved in the wrong doings. So I have 2 concerns;
1 Tah's breaching the cap,
2 The club getting a leg up with player recruitment, and retention.
What this Shenanigans does suggest though is the need for a 3T - If the Tah's are splashing money around, splash it into a 3T comp and it would be a good investment.

To be fair it seems to be only speculation that it is the Tahs for now. I must admit when I heard the news I was sure it would have been the Reds, especially with the Genia saga and his last minute change of mind.

Either way, Australia needs some kind of competition just up from club rugby and just down from Super Rugby to provide it with some grizzled depth. It may be that this comp will ultimately struggle to break even (much like todays ITM cup doesn't quite break even in NZ), but has to be thought of like a loss-leader for improved Super and Test rugby results. But that is for another thread.

 

[waratahjesus]

.

Damo, maybe so the part that concerns me, it is alleged it is NSW and a NSW club - a run on back, and a squad forward. If it does appear as WJ aludes to be the Tahs, and a shute sheild "club" are both involved in the wrong doings. So I have 2 concerns;
1 Tah's breaching the cap,
2 The club getting a leg up with player recruitment, and retention.
What this Shenanigans does suggest though is the need for a 3T - If the Tah's are splashing money around, splash it into a 3T comp and it would be a good investment.

If the total is 50grand as has been suggested in the media. I'm not sure of the actual advantage caused. It sounds more like management managed the salary cap poorly and found a way around it. 50 grand is a third of a basic contract. If that divided between two people has caused recruitment at other clubs to suffer I'm not sure how.

Nor am I sure of why a team poorly managing finances is proof of the need for a 3rd tier? The need for this is a completely different issue. Te fact that the franchise in the largest player base is going to post a financial loss greater than this extra 50 grand is in fact evidence that a 3rd tier remains financially undoable

 

[TOCC]

Nonsense, If it didn't impact in recruitment or retention then they wouldn't have paid it to start with...