S15: Australia dont have depth

[PaarlBok]

Interesting to see Jake White finally got it.

Sport24

Former Springboks Rugby World Cup-winning coach Jake White has suddenly discovered why Australian teams have only occasionally won the Super Rugby tournament. It adds up to a shortage of numbers and an uneven playing field.
White, who has taken over at the Brumbies, said on Thursday that it was more difficult for Australian teams to win the title because of player restrictions.
''It is so much tougher for the Australian teams because there is a salary cap and you can only have 30 players,'' White said. ''There is no academy - so there's no junior age groups you can pull players from. So you really can't underestimate what Ewen McKenzie did with the Reds last year - for an Australian team to win the title was a fantastic achievement.
''The main difficulty I am having is when you don't have an academy and you don't have an under-21 side it makes it tough to have the required depth. [South African] teams, like the Bulls and Sharks, can draw in under-21 players, while New Zealand teams can draw in players from their provincial competition.
''The Blues can drag in players from North Harbour, the Chiefs can get players from Taranaki and so on. And in South Africa, they can bring in players from other areas. But here it is different. That is the difficulty of coaching an Australian franchise team. You are playing in the competition involving 15 teams and five teams have restrictions the other 10 don't have.''
At least White is happy he will be able to field a team. While the Brumbies have lost a tribe of Wallabies including Rocky Elsom, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Matt Giteau and Stephen Hoiles, White argues they are still better off than some other provinces.
When asked if he had a lot of talent to choose from, White said: ''We are as good as we can be in that framework … At this point in time, the Brumbies have a lot of positives other teams don't have. I have 32 guys fit and ready to play, whereas other franchises have a lot of injuries. As much as the squad is inexperienced and new, there are bonuses.''
Who will be the Brumbies captain remains a mystery.
''I've just joined them, I don't really know the players and haven't seen them play. So it would be unfair for me to immediately announce a captain,'' White said.
''There are a lot of guys there who have leadership potential but the most important thing is that I'm looking for a captain who complements me and brings the best out in the group.''

probably the reason why he want to draw young Saffer schoolboys to Australia

 

[Newter]

What does he mean U21 players? Does each Saffer franchise have their own U21s?

 

[Jnor]

I think Stormers and Bulls do, not sure if they all have them

 

[MickeyDR]

Maybe having someone of his stature and experience state what we all have known since our schoolboy days will make JON and co act on it. And I mean actually implement a strategy, conduct reviews and tinker instead of what happened to the ARC.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk

 

[PaarlBok]

We have an CC U21 & U19 competition. The CC Premie provinces have their U21s and U19s on contracts. They also have academies for the U19 contracted players. The Varsity Cup have now an u20 age level competition and this make our pool to pick for the provinces even bigger.

 

[PaarlBok]

All this competitions in SA makes our reffing structure bigger. It gives Watson the oppertunity to nurture up and coming refs through the system to SupeRugby level. So its not only player constructive but also refs constructive. I would love to see Australia send some refs over and let them grow through this levels.

 

[suckerforred]

I actually think that the restrictions that Oz provinces have, that the others don't, will mean that is the future we are going to struggle to win the Super Rugby comp. Good to see Jake stand up and say that the system sucks. Someone needed to.

 

[PaarlBok]

I am surprise Jake White havent mention the Vodacom competition. Its actually higher then the U21s and just outside S15 level. The biggest benefit is that it runs the same time as the S15 and give our coaches the oppertunity to bring injured players back to match fitness of SupeRugby. It also give the players just outside of match22 match fitness while giving our smaller province players the oppertunity to measure against the bigger provinces. Our biggest draw back is that we are provincial contracted driven and not easy for a lot of players who plays here to get into a S15 squad.

 

[Forcefield]

The Melbourne Rebels came too soon. Australian Rugby was just finding a bit of balance after the input of the Force when a whole new team comes in. There was also the post RWC wave of retirements and Japan/France/UK departures. ARU needs to give out more marquee allocations until we can handle 5 franchises.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

The Melbourne Rebels came too soon. Australian Rugby was just finding a bit of balance after the input of the Force when a whole new team comes in. There was also the post RWC wave of retirements and Japan/France/UK departures. ARU needs to give out more marquee allocations until we can handle 5 franchises.

We still went alright with the Rebels introduction, an Aus team won the comp the first time in a long time. The growth from the new Melb franchise will be worth taking a hit in the short term. England prove depth isn't the be all anyway.

 

[Bowside]

I dont think the rebels could come soon enough. Aus rugby is stronger due to their existence.

What we need is a province based 10 team trans-tasman U21 comp to run during super rugby. More opportunities for young players leads to more depth.

 

[Jethro Tah]

I've an idea - anyone for an ARC?

 

[Forcefield]

In the long term having the Rebels will be great. I'm just saying that it could be tough for a couple of years. There are a couple of positions where few of our teams have quality depth. The ARU could've given each team an additional marquee slot and a development slot and phased that out after a couple of years. Hell we had 20 odd new Wallaby eligible players when the Rebels were formed, why would it matter that the other four teams had one less?

 

[PaarlBok]

I dont think the rebels could come soon enough. Aus rugby is stronger due to their existence.

What we need is a province based 10 team trans-tasman U21 comp to run during super rugby. More opportunities for young players leads to more depth.

Make it an U20 competition to make your U20 IRB WC selection stronger. ARU should make it stronger from the bottom structure which will produce more rugby union players. Invest in young union players and cut our league players.

 

[Nusadan]

Make it an U20 competition to make your U20 IRB WC selection stronger. ARU should make it stronger from the bottom structure which will produce more rugby union players. Invest in young union players and cut our league players.

Got a lazy million or two around for that, PB?

 

[Bruce Ross]

One would have thought that before signing on with the Brumbies, an ex-national coach would have done some research and realised he was coming to a rugby wasteland with no equivalent of the Currie Cup with its senior, Under 21 and Under 19 players all contracted; no Vodacom competition and no Under 20 televised Varsity Cup. And worse still, our franchises are restricted to 30 players and operate under a salary cap.

I don’t know whether anyone has alerted Jake to this yet, but Australian rugby also has to contend with the AFL and NRL.

And yet our teams don’t perform all that shabbily against the teams from the multi-tiered South African system.

Thus far Mr White’s sole contribution to improving the development pathway for Australian players is to deny his fringe players the opportunity to participate in the third tier of our rugby, the Sydney and Brisbane premiership competitions.

 

[suckerforred]

Posted this is in another thread but it probably applies here.

Found out that RU colts are U19, but RJ colts are U20's. Have heard of a couple of guys in Bris comp that are looking to switch to RL so they can stay in colts. Does anyone see this as a potiential leaking point for our younger players. Not making a judgement on why these guys are leaving just asking a question.

 

[Brisbok]

Thus far Mr White’s sole contribution to improving the development pathway for Australian players is to deny his fringe players the opportunity to participate in the third tier of our rugby, the Sydney and Brisbane premiership competitions.

That's quite a short-sighted view Bruce. Should the ARU and Australian rugby fans admit defeat in their efforts to grow the game in the other cities and just accept that all of their players will always come from Sydney and Brisbane? Or should they be trying to develop rugby in the other cities with the prospect of then having a larger player base to select from? If so, should they start this ASAP or leave it for another 10 years?

How about trying to develop a stronger local rugby competition in Canberra to try and attract more of the local youngsters to play the game and give them an achievable target to aspire to?

 

[qwerty51]

It's not a short-sighted view, it's a about reality vs expectation.

 

[Brisbok]

Is there nothing to be gained from trying to develop a stronger local competition in Canberra?