RWC 2011 SF1 - Wales v France

[Inside Shoulder]

But what a way to go?

With a stereotype like that, you would have to imagine that their stress levels, and rates of stress induced heart attacks, are low.

You're right - medical science thinks it the mediterranean diet!

 

[Cardiffblue]

Yeah, but that's 11,000 miles away from the action. The experience of the players on the ground is what will count, the Kiwi, Australian and French press are filling the ears of the players with. No one gives a shit if the Stephen Jones (the journo) writes the French off.

I think no matter what the laws of the game and the IRB directives make it clear that tackle had to be a red card. Just been trawling the UK papers, I find it baffling that journos can include the relevant laws which clearly stipulate a red card and then argue that it shouldn't have been one. At the very least, it's not Alain Rolland's fault, and to be honest I think dropping blokes on their necks needs a zero tolerance response. It's right up there with headlock cleanouts and eye gouging as a way to inflict a career-threatening injury, but that's me getting subjective. Fact is, Rolland had to send him off.

Also, I wonder if Warren Gatland bitching so heartily about the ref will get him a 6-month ban? Or is it just Samoans who can't shoot their mouths off about refs?

Not heard gatland. disagree that it was a red card but it's irrelevant as a red card was given. Stephen jones the journo is Engl*sh and since he writes behnd a pay wall I never have to bother with him. However, please do not compare a coach bitter at a decision that undid a lot f hard work with a F@ckwit issuing death threats against the ref.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not heard gatland. disagree that it was a red card but it's irrelevant as a red card was given. Stephen jones the journo is Engl*sh and since he writes behnd a pay wall I never have to bother with him. However, please do not compare a coach bitter at a decision that undid a lot f hard work with a F@ckwit issuing death threats against the ref.

I thought the replacement captains post match was an absolute credit to him and the Welsh

 

[maxdacat]

The trouble is once a guy has been picked up the tackled player can make it look really bad by moving his body. Its out of control of the tackler.
Thats what i don't like about it. Makes it an easy way to get a someone sent off, if you know what you are doing.

Yeah that French guy made it look really bad by letting his legs go vertical and nearly coming down on his neck. He really knew what he was doing.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Personally I reckon the reffing was a disgrace, and the ref needs to have a long hard look at himself if he isn't lynched by Welsh supporters first. But to be honest, it's Wales' own fault that they didn't get kick those goals. I hope the ABs thrash France anyway.

I think the ref was disgraceful because he alone has ruined the world cup -not just for us but by letting the most hopeless pile of shite into the final. Country Boy, there is only onefrench team at this tourament, they are incapable of scoring a try.

Prior to warburton dismissal wales were ramping up pressure and would have won comfortably. The defence of the french was nothing like Australia vs SA which was a display of guts. this was bunch of clueless idiots playing against a team who played dumb football- not realising how bad the opposition really were until too late. Scrum held up ok considering los of adam and Breadman. Line out was lost with send off. Options were cut to middle or front and it was relatively easy to defend. Do not expect anything else from this french team they are crap

 

[Cardiffblue]

As soon as Warburton got the red, I knew exactly how the game would pan out. The French don't believe in putting in any effort beyond getting the win. They were always going to grind it out. If Warburton stayed on, I reckon the French would have scored a couple of tries. They went intot heir shell, because they calculated that they could save their freakish game for the final.

I really rate the French against whoever they come up against in the final. (I would also have rated the Welsh against Australia).

Wrong. this french team only does as much as it is capable of- which isn't very much

 

[Cardiffblue]

I haven't read back through this thread, so I'm sure this sentiment has been expressed many times before, but... I'm absolutely outraged.

That was one of the three most important games of the four year cycle, and it was decided by a trigger-happy ref in the first quarter. If that happens today I'm going to be out tipping cars.

I think this is a good point. this is the showcase for the game we love. It has been ruined by this decision and there is no way (in my view) this warranted a red card. Someone has to get it throught their thick skulls that the game of rugby is about entertainment and as a result of this decision, that game was dire.

 

[Cardiffblue]

There will be more skittish decisions by the refs in the next 2 matches. They must be wound up after what has happened to Bryce. I think Rolland should have discussed the tackle with his assistants, it all happened too quickly for such an important decision.

The winger Clerc took a very dramatic dive later in the game when following a kick. That made me feel uncomfortable about the send off.

Look the decision re: red car was one thing. What really pissed me off was his pathetic attempts to rectify matters in the second half by
not reffing the breakdown and giving us joke penalties such a the one that 1/2p missed

 

[Cardiffblue]

You're right - medical science thinks it the mediterranean diet!

Bullshit! I'm married to a French person. This latin deperament is so much crap

 

[Cardiffblue]

took this of Gwl@d. Sums up pretty much RWC for us. thanks to 'pleidiol wyf'

It is hard to imagine a more heart-breaking defeat. Down to 14 men for the last hour, and having lost our cornerstone on the tighthead after only 10 minutes, Wales had no right to be in this match at all; and yet we were. Thanks to a remarkable display from the Welsh, and a remarkably negative approach from the French, we spent the last 20 minutes of the game a single point behind – and that, of course, is where the real heart-break was. We had no right to be so close – but having got there against all the odds, we had opportunity after opportunity to steal the victory, and simply could not do it. Attacking lineout after attacking lineout was thrown away, kicks at goal hit the woodwork or fell inches short, drop goal attempts went badly wrong or simply didn’t happen, and the final whistle brought an unlikely dream to a bitter end.

It is hard to imagine a more heart-breaking defeat; and yet heart-break should not be, must not be, the legacy we take from this World Cup. There is no glory in defeat. There is, however, a glory that defeat can not extinguish: the glory of finding your limits and being pushed beyond them, of refusing to break however shattering the blow, of discovering that you have more to give than anyone else imagined. This Welsh team has much of that glory already, and will win more in their response to this defeat, in their performance next week, in their performances in the months and years ahead. It takes the raging, vicious heat of magma to make diamonds – this defeat is surely painful enough to match that heat, and this Welsh squad is full of players who have the strength to become diamonds.

Adversity shows us who we really are. We will see that in how these players respond; but it is every bit as true of us as supporters, as people. We had seen what our team could produce, we had dared to dream, and those dreams have been trampled in the mud of Eden Park. It would be easy to blame the referee, to blame the fickle hand of luck, to howl against the fleeting nature of sporting opportunity – and yet that is not what we should do.

No. Instead, we should ask ourselves, ask each other, as we sit over our tasteless pints, why it is that we watch rugby, and why it is that we care. The answers should be clear. We watch it because it is the pinnacle of sport; because it marries the brutal with the poetic, marries passion with analysis, marries a dozen and more different contests in a single match. We care because it expresses something of our lives; of adversity, of triumph and disaster, of the fascinating complexities that being Welsh involves.

Those answers should help us see how this adversity will reveal us to ourselves. Perhaps ironically for a Welsh supporter, it was an Englishman (but qualified by birth to play for India) who said it best of all: ‘If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters just the same.’ And there’s the truth of it – triumph is an imposter, disaster is an imposter. Neither is real. Reality is the journey, not the temporary stations that we mistake for destinations. Reality is the glory of the struggle, the glory of getting back on your feet every time you are knocked down, the glory of reaching further than you think you can, the glory of life itself.

These young men of ours, these sons and brothers, have wrestled with that glory. They have reached past their own limits time and again, and they have represented us to the world as well as we could possibly have hoped. They deserve our respect and admiration; but more than that, they deserve that we should be inspired by them, and that we should collectively set our own sights higher in recognition of their endeavours.

So drink those pints of bitter, people of Wales – and then when the sun rises again, shake off your headaches and do whatever you do best a little bit better. Achieve more, laugh more, help others more, love more, live more – and make the legacy of this Welsh team and this World Cup defeat a ripple effect that gives us all a taste of glory. Every single person in Wales who was watching the game was knocked to the ground by the final whistle – let every single one of us get back up again, wipe the blood away, and aim a little higher.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

took this of Gwl@d. Sums up pretty much RWC for us. thanks to 'pleidiol wyf'

Picked up here earlier today, while you were out doing healthy things and enjoying this beautiful Sydney spring morning on your cycle.

Already got 4 "agrees". Says a lot about the Welsh psyche.

From my knowledge of the residents of the Land of The Darkness, a very similar article could be written about them.

http://gwladrugby.com/

Love the passion in the sentiments the writer expressed here.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

snip... I'm married to a French person. ...snip

I know it's playing the man, but FFS a garlic and leek sandwich. This culinary delight could only be bettered by the Durian, that South East Asian delicacy that can only be described as an acquired taste.

 

[Braveheart81]

Whilst I certainly agree that Wales should have still won the game because of all the kicks they missed, I don't think this changes the fact that the red card decided the match. France were so bad that had Wales had their full contingent on the field (barring 10 minutes for a yellow card), they would have won the game very easily.

I agree that the tackle was either a red or a yellow card, I certainly don't think it was a definite red card by any means. Rolland effectively made a decision at that moment that Wales deserved to lose the match for Warburton's tackle. In an evenly matched game, having an extra man for 60 minutes should lead to a comfortable victory. It was only France's ineptitude that resulted in a close match that Wales should have still won.

Particularly in a game as important as a RWC Semi Final, I think referees should err on the side of leniency. A yellow card could have been given and no one would have argued to any great extent that it was a definite red. Whilst the tackle was dangerous, the player didn't land on his head, wasn't driven into the ground and suffered no injury.

Unless absolutely necessary, I don't think rugby games should be decided by a refereeing decision. In this situation, I don't believe that it was absolutely necessary that a red card was given.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I know it's playing the man, but FFS a garlic and leek sandwich. This culinary delight could only be bettered by the Durian, that South East Asian delicacy that can only be described as an acquired taste.

Yes there is an irony in this situation. My point is that large sections of france are closer to England than mediterranean in most things- tho thankfully not when it comes to food

 

[Cardiffblue]

Whilst I certainly agree that Wales should have still won the game because of all the kicks they missed, I don't think this changes the fact that the red card decided the match. France were so bad that had Wales had their full contingent on the field (barring 10 minutes for a yellow card), they would have won the game very easily.

I agree that the tackle was either a red or a yellow card, I certainly don't think it was a definite red card by any means. Rolland effectively made a decision at that moment that Wales deserved to lose the match for Warburton's tackle. In an evenly matched game, having an extra man for 60 minutes should lead to a comfortable victory. It was only France's ineptitude that resulted in a close match that Wales should have still won.

Particularly in a game as important as a RWC Semi Final, I think referees should err on the side of leniency. A yellow card could have been given and no one would have argued to any great extent that it was a definite red. Whilst the tackle was dangerous, the player didn't land on his head, wasn't driven into the ground and suffered no injury.

Unless absolutely necessary, I don't think rugby games should be decided by a refereeing decision. In this situation, I don't believe that it was absolutely necessary that a red card was given.

My thoughts exactly. And while we're on the subject again. I think it completely reprehensible the way that Dusatoir was allowed to get in the face af the ref and scream at him. He did and in the heat of the evening, he made an on the spot decision and then spent the rest of the game trying to give us dubious penalties from long range- like the one 1/2p missed.

 

[Sully]

A red card or a yellow card is exactly the same thing no matter how important the game is. Rugby laws apply the same every time you play. I'm not saying he deserve the red or the yellow. What I am saying is if it's a red card in subbies it's a red card in the RWC final.

 

[Braveheart81]

A red card or a yellow card is exactly the same thing no matter how important the game is. Rugby laws apply the same every time you play. I'm not saying he deserve the red or the yellow. What I am saying is if it's a red card in subbies it's a red card in the RWC final.

I agree to an extent, however when there is a clear shade of grey and no certainty over which was the correct card to utilise, I think the referee should err on the side of leniency. Clearly from the IRB memo posted earlier, this is something they are trying to crack down on so it would appear that they are trying to err on the side of harshness to rub out lifting tackles from the game. I don't think RWC semi-finals are the place to be making examples of people.

If it had been a clear red card offence then I would have no problem with a red card being used. I thought it could have gone either way and given the situation of the match (being only 20 minutes in) and the importance of it, a red card was an incredibly harsh route to take.

 

[Sully]

Again not getting into a fight over whether it was a red or a yellow. Have a look at Timmsy's post further up. Here

In 2007, the IRB Council approved a Laws Designated Members Ruling which essentially made it clear that tackles involving a player being lifted off the ground and tipped horizontally and were then either forced or dropped to the ground are illegal and constitute dangerous play.
At a subsequent IRB High Performance Referee Seminar at Lensbury referees were advised that for these types of tackles they were to start at red card as a sanction and work backwards.

 

[Braveheart81]

That is what I referring to when I said IRB memo.

I think the start at red card and work backwards is the crucial part here. I think there are many lifting tackles far worse than Warburton's which would indicate to me that you could easily work backwards from the red card tackle that is likely to have the player land more on their head/neck and possibly involve driving them into the ground to Warburton's tackle which I think could have easily been a yellow.

Anyway, what's done is done. I just think it was a horrible way to decide a RWC semi final and wasn't the necessary course of action for Rolland to take.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Again not getting into a fight over whether it was a red or a yellow. Have a look at Timmsy's post further up. Here

How do you work backwards from a red card...its like the death penalty