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Rugby World Cup 2019

Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Bobby Sands said:
Mate, slow down.

Quade came to Australia with his family on his mothers own accord when he was about 12 I think - you understand this yes?

He was good at rugby, and got a scholarship to the nearest big school when he was 17. He played his rugby at South Magpies and Logan right through this period.

Quade being born in NZ, immigrating to Australia, becoming good at rugby and then eventually getting a scholarship to Churchie and then a contract to the Reds are all seperate events.

You understand this yes?

Don't can't aspersions when you know literally nothing about this particular case, it's weird, have a cold shower.
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I understand everything, so we both agree that Scholarship are good for kids even for kids that actually were pretty good players in NZ and scholarships here. I not knocking anyone in Aus BS, in fact I like it, I love going to watch schools like Southport ,Nudgee etc, and seeing kids that are getting real good education because they are good at either rugby, soccer or whatever, and not sure why you are so against kids from the islands being able to do it.
As BH says he is still a NZ citizen or was for Rio olympics, so not sure which one of knows nothing about this case.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
Dan54 said:
I understand everything, so we both agree that Scholarship are good for kids even for kids that actually were pretty good players in NZ and scholarships here. I not knocking anyone in Aus BS, in fact I like it, I love going to watch schools like Southport ,Nudgee etc, and seeing kids that are getting real good education because they are good at either rugby, soccer or whatever, and not sure why you are so against kids from the islands being able to do it.
As BH says he is still a NZ citizen or was for Rio olympics, so not sure which one of knows nothing about this case.
Click to expand...


Saying Australian citizen was actually a bit of a Red Herring, and that is my fault.

What I meant was that Quade was a local rugby talent, who came here of his families own volition, and spent most of his high school years in a public school environment.

Australian rugby might have many players not born in this country, but very few of them (none?) are brought to Australia during high school from overseas for the purposes of playing rugby. Churchie is one of the few schools that I am aware of that does this, and as I said an I am not aware of any of these scholarship holders who have gone on to play professional rugby or other sports.

New Zealand actively targets Pacific Island talent at school age, and then naturalises them as Kiwis when they they prove themselves and are of value.

Of the overseas players in Australia; Naisarani came to Australia as an adult, so to with Tevita I think?, Samu grew up here, so did Sio, and AAA, Lukhan, Thor was recruited to NZ and them came across, To'omua grew up here.

None to my knowledge have been targeted and brought across from another country as children for the purposes of playing rugby.

I have little problem with scholarships, I do have a problem with essentially ripping kids from other countries. On top of this, I take issue with sitting on a balsa wood high horse and grandstanding that you are part of the solution of helping Pacific Island talent, when in fact you are actually almost solely the only nation that are consistently raiding these islands for their best kids as a supplementary piggy bank of NZ rugby.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
Dan54 said:
I understand everything, so we both agree that Scholarship are good for kids even for kids that actually were pretty good players in NZ and scholarships here. I not knocking anyone in Aus BS, in fact I like it, I love going to watch schools like Southport ,Nudgee etc, and seeing kids that are getting real good education because they are good at either rugby, soccer or whatever, and not sure why you are so against kids from the islands being able to do it.
As BH says he is still a NZ citizen or was for Rio olympics, so not sure which one of knows nothing about this case.
Click to expand...

I'll pass on your best wishes next time I see him.
 
Dan54

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Bobby Sands said:
Australia do, do this - its just to a much smaller degree. Again, I am not saying we are innocent here.

.
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And you maybe correct that Australia do it to a lesser degree at Schools than NZ, but I think you will find that Island families and kids can go direct to NZ because they are protectorates or some flash name for it so more or are allowed in as wanted. As i said I was around in 70s when it all happened, when Islander's homes were raided at midnight to throw out overstayers, mate we comparing apples and oranges here! And I just looking at colleges and how they allowed in, not making any comment on number of 'Poaches' Wallabies have supposedly got.(Which I still count as zero). Anyway enough of that discussion. It is one that neither will win, and to be honest I really don't give a proverbial, if I had been at work today I would of just laughed it all away!
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Dan54 said:
And you maybe correct that Australia do it to a lesser degree at Schools than NZ, but I think you will find that Island families and kids can go direct to NZ because they are protectorates or some flash name for it so more or are allowed in as wanted.
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This is a key point. The ability for PIs to migrate to NZ is much easier than it is to migrate to Australia.
 
wamberal

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Emigration from places like Tonga is driven by economic necessity. There is very little local employment, and any family of commoners who does not have at least one member working overseas is living in poverty.
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Team announcements for Rugby World Cup quarter-finals (NZ time)
Thursday: England (3pm), New Zealand (3:30pm), South Africa (6:30pm), Ireland (8pm), Australia (9pm).
Friday: Japan (5:30pm), Wales (5:30pm), France (7pm).

NZ is on Daylight Savings Time so two hours ahead of AEDT.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
waiopehu oldboy said:
Team announcements for Rugby World Cup quarter-finals (NZ time)
Thursday: England (3pm), New Zealand (3:30pm), South Africa (6:30pm), Ireland (8pm), Australia (9pm).
Friday: Japan (5:30pm), Wales (5:30pm), France (7pm).

NZ is on Daylight Savings Time so two hours ahead of AEDT.
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Are these the scheduled press conferences?
 
Bullrush

Bullrush

Geoff Shaw (53)
Bobby Sands said:
New Zealand actively targets Pacific Island talent at school age, and then naturalises them as Kiwis when they they prove themselves and are of value.

Of the overseas players in Australia; Naisarani came to Australia as an adult, so to with Tevita I think?, Samu grew up here, so did Sio, and AAA, Lukhan, Thor was recruited to NZ and them came across, To'omua grew up here.

None to my knowledge have been targeted and brought across from another country as children for the purposes of playing rugby.
Click to expand...

So after naming all of those players in the Wallabies, shall we do the same for the ABs - who only has 4 players not born in NZ

Ofa Tu'ungafasi - moved to NZ when he was 14(?). Given he went to Mangere College, I highly doubt he was 'poached' for his talent. Like QC (Quade Cooper), his rugby development is due to NZ rugby.

Nepo Laulala - moved to NZ in his teens as well. Like QC (Quade Cooper), his rugby development is largely due to NZ rugby.

Shannon Frizell - like Naisarani, he came across to NZ as an adult.

Sevu Reece - again, like Tupou he moved to NZ in his teens.

Again - only 4 players were not born in NZ. A third of the Australian number who have 12 non-Aussie players. In 2015, Australia had 9 and NZ had 6. The trend is going up in Australia and heading down for the ABs.

NZ hands are not clean when it comes to this issue but at least they are trying to do something about it.
 
Tex

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Lies, damn lies and statistics. As you've noted, there's a massive difference between a Frizell or Naisarani and a Pocock or Genia or DHP.

Poey and Genia and DHP would be "foreign players" based on a passport metric.
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
There have been 175 World Cup All Blacks of whom only five did not attend a NZ secondary school. One of those was John Gallagher (England). I counted 15 players not born in NZ (including Gallagher & Andrew Mehrtens (SA)) so 160/175 NZ-born, 170/175 at least partially NZ-schooled.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ere-rugby-world-cup-all-blacks-went-to-school

Overall there have been 1185 AB. Of the 1133 capped prior to mid-2014 just 32 were born in a PI nation or territory. Without checking the bios of the most recent 52, I think about 7-10 were PI-born, for a total of around 40. Again without checking team sheets & bios I would be surprised if there were fewer than 40 NZ-born players in the Tongan, Samoan & Fijian RWC squads.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11278276

It's true that there are a lot of PI-eligible players at Super Rugby & M10 level (& Heartland for that matter) but, again, by far the majority are NZ-born and/ or schooled. Despite this I'm not aware of NZR or a member Union preventing a player wishing to represent their country of birth or heritage from doing so & I'd really like to know the names of the players NZR has supposedly warehoused over the years esp pre-professionalism.
 
Adam84

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
Unless we are privy to the details of those contracts I don't think we will ever know who is contractually obliged to make themselves available to country 'x' over their birth nation, which is undoubtedly happening.

For many PI players, representing their adopted nation in the Wallabies or All Blacks is just as much of an honour as representing their birth nation, and also comes with the added bonus of being financially more lucrative.
 
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