Rugby Championship 2012: Our Backline

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I would go
9 Genia
10 JOC (James O'Connor)/Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Barnes
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 JOC (James O'Connor)/Tomane/Mitchell
15 Beale

Cooper notified to tighten up his defence asap or see himself relegated to the bench
Bench
White or Phipps (tough for me to say on White as he didnt get a minute in the welsh series!)
McCabe
Cooper/Tomane/Mitchell

mccabes tackling and hard work are great, but he certainly (ditto horne) are not much more than extremely hard working and hard tackling centres (the latter maybe not horne!) - a great quality i admit - but it isn't going to open up the defence or set up teammates. they rarely pass. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is'nt known for his passing either, BUT i feel he is a much better ball runner - both straight into contact and at adding a bit more multi-dimensional running to his game.

 

[Slim 293]

agreed, but that doesn't equate to a Wobs starting role for an untried player, it equates to squad opportunities, a bench spot - maybe, and the tour in November.

that may not be fair or right, but it is the way it is. Foley sat on the sidelines as a wider squad unit throughout the series, if Lilo was fit he probably would have had his spot collecting splinters and learning the systems whilst holding the tackling bags

I don't think you can compare Lilo to Foley.

Lilo was the form Australian flyhalf, and the mail leading into the series was that he'd deservedly take the starting spot for Aus.......

Foley was a fringe squad member.......

 

[Viking]

I would go
9 Genia
10 JOC (James O'Connor)/Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Barnes
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 JOC (James O'Connor)/Tomane/Mitchell
15 Beale

Cooper notified to tighten up his defence asap or see himself relegated to the bench
Bench
White or Phipps (tough for me to say on White as he didnt get a minute in the welsh series!)
McCabe
Cooper/Tomane/Mitchell

mccabes tackling and hard work are great, but he certainly (ditto horne) are not much more than extremely hard working and hard tackling centres (the latter maybe not horne!) - a great quality i admit - but it isn't going to open up the defence or set up teammates. they rarely pass. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is'nt known for his passing either, BUT i feel he is a much better ball runner - both straight into contact and at adding a bit more multi-dimensional running to his game.

I have to disagree. I think McCabe is now a better running then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is very one dimensional, he has one move which he try's every time. The right hand fend. I noticed he once had 2 free players outside him but chose to tuck it up and run himself. I dont believe McCabe would make that same decision. McCabe runs hard and runs great lines, his try against the welsh was a beauty. McCabe > AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

 

[Slim 293]

And McCabe regularly sets up his outside backs at the Brumbies....... It's a non-issue really.......

 

[fatprop]

I don't think you can compare Lilo to Foley.

Lilo was the form Australian flyhalf, and the mail leading into the series was that he'd deservedly take the starting spot for Aus...

Foley was a fringe squad member...

at the moment Lilo is more of a fringe squad member .......compare? meh

my point was .............................. that Lilo would have been doing the shit Foley got to do in June if he was fit and Foley would have been playing for Uni.

 

[Bowside]

I'm not surprised about McCabe being included in the leadership group...

The kid who didn't show up to the RWC team photo shoot however...

Does anyone else think this idea of a leadership group is flawed.

Firstly because it makes it difficult to drop players, like imagine if they had have made one of these in 2009. Giteau would surely have been included, yet the next year his form was abject and he needed to be dropped. Deans finally dropping him was political enough to begin with, without adding the leadership credentials in the mix.

Secondly because it somewhat excludes the other players in the team from first leadership but also tactics.

I think the only players in the leadership 'group' should be Genia and Pocock, maybe Horwill when fit if he regains the captaincy. 'Leadership' should be expected from all players, with the understanding that some lead by example and just do there assigned job, whilst others want to chat a bit more.

When forming tactics the whole coaching team should sit down with those who the tactics involve - having the flyhalf there is a must (does this move signify JOC (James O'Connor) is the new 10?), as well as key forward positions fullback ect.

I firmly believe part of the reason Cooper has not performed to his potential in a gold jersey is due to the fact he doesn't have that working relationship with deans that he does with Link. Leadership may not be his thing, but I bet my bottom dollar that when the reds are formulating game plans he and link would be working back and forth discussing how to best go about things. He is like shane warne in this regard - a great mind for the tactics and understanding of the game.

I don't buy this test=/=super rugby comparison, whereby posters seem to believe that quade is not capable of the step up. The reds have beaten crusaders and stormers teams that are better than some of the nations australia has lost to in the past few years. And they have done it in front of packed stadiums at the business end of the competition.

 

[Bowside]

I have to disagree. I think McCabe is now a better running then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is very one dimensional, he has one move which he try's every time. The right hand fend. I noticed he once had 2 free players outside him but chose to tuck it up and run himself. I dont believe McCabe would make that same decision. McCabe runs hard and runs great lines, his try against the welsh was a beauty. McCabe > AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

Whilst AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can be selfish at times with ball in hand, calling his running game one dimensional is a stretch I feel. I will preface this by saying I rate AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) more as a fullback or winger that an out centre, which is where I would play McCabe, however McCabe also only has one move: he picks a line, tucks the ball under his arm and runs it. No ball in 2 hands, no dummy, no swerve. His running game is the personification of one dimensional. But alas, he is very good at it and does it well, and that's why I think style would work better at 13 where he can run into more space and straighten the attack to give his men outside more space to work their magic. His defence is also top notch which is especially important for a 13.

For the TRC I would have start:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. JOC (James O'Connor)
13. McCabe
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Beale

All conditional on the form they show over the next few weeks obviously. Shmoo is a class winger and still has some runs left in him I feel, but he may not be ready until later in the championship. Cooper too may also struggle on return from injury in which case I would either move barnes to his position or bring beale forward, with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to fullback and the form winger to the wing.

 

[Viking]

Completely agree Bowside with ur leadership members post.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Does anyone else think this idea of a leadership group is flawed.

Yep, not a fan of them at all. It sounds like new age management wank. The head coach sets the strategy, brings his assistants in to work on the specifics of implementation and then the players to put it into practice. It's obviously fine for the players to provide feedback, but few good things come out of management by committee. If the team fails, a lot of focus is on the coach, so they should have the necessary responsibility and authority to make those calls. Same with the captain out on the paddock: they make the call and that's the end of it. I think we've all played in teams where there are too many voices out on the field and it just confuses people.

The coach and captain should have a close relationship and present a united front, even if there are disagreements. You can bet that Slack/Jones, Farr-Jones/Dwyer and Eales/MacQueen didn't agree on everything, but you can bet that they were united in their goal to make their teams the best they could be.

 

[Athilnaur]

Whilst AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can be selfish at times with ball in hand, calling his running game one dimensional is a stretch I feel. I will preface this by saying I rate AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) more as a fullback or winger that an out centre, which is where I would play McCabe, however McCabe also only has one move: he picks a line, tucks the ball under his arm and runs it. No ball in 2 hands, no dummy, no swerve. His running game is the personification of one dimensional.

Actually we have seen him swerve, and quite well: during the Eden park Bledisloe only a very quick acting Carter managed to pull him down before he could get past the pod of ABs properly and put JOC (James O'Connor) into space.

I lost the footage but didnt he also have a couple of very tidy little runs and off loads in Wales test 3 before he came off?
Ath.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I have to disagree. I think McCabe is now a better running then AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is very one dimensional, he has one move which he try's every time. The right hand fend. I noticed he once had 2 free players outside him but chose to tuck it up and run himself. I dont believe McCabe would make that same decision. McCabe runs hard and runs great lines, his try against the welsh was a beauty. McCabe > AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

i've seen AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) definitely run some exquisite lines and throw in some side stepping and jinking. not so much mccabe for me and definitely not horne.

did it p!ss anyone else off that horne got that ball with a ton of space and a man outside on the weekend, chose to run on the diaganol effectively taking the outside man out of the play? and only by absolute dumb luck did he get that ball down with a questionable amount of control.

i will give you that i'd prefer mccabe at outside centre than at inside centre.

maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at full back and beale at 13! we know the kid can run, pass and tackle! unlikely to ever occur but i'd love to see some experimentation when a game affords it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The big issue with the concept of a JOC (James O'Connor) or a Beale at outside centre is it means our backline will be light on the power in defence and attack if we also have Cooper and Barnes at 10/12. Somewhere in the midfield I feel we do need more of a grafter to truck it up when nothing is on, lay a hit on to shut down an attack and provide a bit of line busting ability. I'm a big fan of the concept "the ball beats the man", but you can't base 100% of your strategy around it. Sometimes a bit of brute force is needed. That's why I loved Morts at 13 when we had Gits at 12. Best of both worlds then.

The All Blacks adopt a similar strategy with a big line buster like SBW or Nonu and a distributor like Smith. Conrad is a bit bigger though, which is a massive luxury for those guys.

 

[Paradox]

Unfortunately I don't think we'll see a 10/12 of Cooper/JOC (James O'Connor) unless they don't defend in those positions. Head on defense is key in those areas and neither JOC (James O'Connor) or Cooper are the best front on tacklers.

 

[Scotty]

I don't think you can compare Lilo to Foley.

Lilo was the form Australian flyhalf, and the mail leading into the series was that he'd deservedly take the starting spot for Aus...

Foley was a fringe squad member...

Slim, you aren't learning the Deans way very fast, are you? What evidence do you have that suggests Deans uses super xv form as a basis for his selections?

 

[Swat]

Unfortunately I don't think we'll see a 10/12 of Cooper/JOC (James O'Connor) unless they don't defend in those positions. Head on defense is key in those areas and neither JOC (James O'Connor) or Cooper are the best front on tacklers.

Half agree, cooper is definitely a rubbish head on defender, JOC (James O'Connor) should not be compared to cooper when it comes to defense.

 

[cyclopath]

did it p!ss anyone else off that horne got that ball with a ton of space and a man outside on the weekend, chose to run on the diaganol effectively taking the outside man out of the play? and only by absolute dumb luck did he get that ball down with a questionable amount of control.

Have you read the rest of the thread? Have a glance.

 

[doondoonsley]

Assuming injured players will return to full fitness, and no other players will be injured:
9. Will Genia
10. Berrick Barnes (Based on Wales game(s) form)
11. Digby Ioane
12. James O'Connor
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Drew Mitchel
15. Kurtley Beale

A 2nd back line I would propose (or a 2nd VII if you like), featuring players who could be in the starting line up or bench is:
9. Nic White
10. Quade Cooper/Lealifano (If he weren't injured)
11. Joe Tomane
12. Pat McCabe/Rob Horne
13. Anthony Fainga/Rob Horne/Ben Tapui
14. Lachie Turner
15. Luke Morahan

 

[Swat]

Does anyone else think this idea of a leadership group is flawed.

I know one player who definitely is not a fan...

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Have you read the rest of the thread? Have a glance.

I now have. glad most share my disgust.

I remember running for the corner with a man outside me in grade 9 - last game i played at outside centre before getting shifted to 6.

as a non-australian a large part of me wishes that try had gone the other way to teach that muppet a lesson.

 

[qwerty51]

you people cannot be serious putting AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/JOC (James O'Connor)/Barnes in the centres again..