Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
Seems like the respectful thing to do - don't come home when you could wake anybody up.
Rugby 7s general chat
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
- Start date
I agree that we need to start some sort of domestic 7s competition. I'd love it to end up like the Big Bash, but that's step 10, and we haven't even started down that road yet (not to say we shouldn't aim for it).
I think step 1 is the creation of a National Championship of 7s. I think it should be club based, with the professionals sent to train and play with their local club.
Have regional qualifiers, with each State qualifying a set number of teams - let's say WA and Vic get 2 each (NT can compete in WA qualifier, while SA and Tas can compete in Vic), ACT get 3 and NSW and QLD get 4 each. Add in a 'Barbarians' side and you've got a 16 team comp.
The qualifiers are open to all comers- schools, subbies, league teams, etc.
You televise the National Finals, and hopefully plant the seeds of something bigger to grow.
This gets Sevens out in the community, and provides a valuable opportunity to scope the next generation of talent.
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I think step 1 is the creation of a National Championship of 7s. I think it should be club based, with the professionals sent to train and play with their local club.
Have regional qualifiers, with each State qualifying a set number of teams - let's say WA and Vic get 2 each (NT can compete in WA qualifier, while SA and Tas can compete in Vic), ACT get 3 and NSW and QLD get 4 each. Add in a 'Barbarians' side and you've got a 16 team comp.
The qualifiers are open to all comers- schools, subbies, league teams, etc.
You televise the National Finals, and hopefully plant the seeds of something bigger to grow.
This gets Sevens out in the community, and provides a valuable opportunity to scope the next generation of talent.
.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
We need to capitalise on the momentum gained from the games in terms of commercially. I honestly doubt going the club route will achieve this. We need to present a viable commercial product. As P.Tah suggests this could be achieved via the use of existing professional structures such as the Super Rugby franchises. This would provide a degree of brand recognition as well as professional training environments for the athletes.
Going the club route runs the risk of diluting the overall quality or potential athletes missing out if their team fails to qualify.
However, I'm not suggesting that something similar to this structure shouldn't be implemented. In terms of overall community engagement it would be a solid structure. Looking at the NSW structures you can use the Shute Shield teams as the spine of the state competition. Subbies and Country clubs could compete in geographic regional competitions .i.e. Sydney North West, Illawarra etc. open to all contenders. From there regional selects could be selected and they could progress to take on the Shute Shield teams. From there the top 4 qualify from your proposed strcutre. Same for Queensland and as you suggest NT can compete with WA teams to qualify while SA and Tas progress via Victoria.
Good question. Maybe nobody initially. But if you did it in Summer, where there isn't much outside of cricket then you could get 7 Two or Fox I reckon. Might take some cash from the ARU, Shute Shield style.
Though I think we need it more for a talent identification opportunity than a promotional vehicle. So it would still be valuable with or without coverage.
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I think you build to that. There isn't the money or interest to start there now, I think the Nat Champs is a stepping stone to something like that.
My other issue with that proposal is I'm not sure how it works in practice. How does a 5-team Sevens comp work? How many times do they play each other? Are we involving Kiwi sides?
I understand it would be convenient to utilise the Super teams, but I don't know quite the best way to do it.
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WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
It would be a purely domestic competition. You go with the current 5 plus a 'baabaas' like squad to bring it to six. Could either base it in either Queensland or Western Sydney. Considering the Rams have done a bit of work with 7s I'd be inclined to give it to them.
Each franchise hosts a round. Using the Championship rules (10 minute halves) each tea, will play one game each. With both men's and women's that means a total of 6 games each round. The hosts play the final two games each. At the end of the series each team would have played each other once and the most consistent team wins.
I actually think your proposed structure would be a good fit underneath this. Using a similar set up what I suggest you can set up a pyramid talent identification process. For players currently at Shute Shield/Premier Rugby/JID etc. get more exposure and any athlete who thinks they could make a claim has the opportunity to compete in a 'regional' Sevens league in order to be selected in the respective regional select side to compete against the Premier clubs.
From there they could then be selected as part of the squad for the 'Super 7s' competition where players compete for selection in the national squad. I think that would be the most balanced structure in terms of participation and progression.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
You'd only need to have the nationals televised at a minimum. I think that it could potentially be a saleable event to a TV station. Beyond that, you would look to stream the state championship tournament.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Could always go with the current 5 Super Rugby franchises plus at least a Fijian and Samoan squad. Perhaps even Tonga. PNG? Call in the 'Pacific Super 7s'.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
An interesting an extensively thought out piece from The Roar. http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/15/the-wrap-introducing-rugby-sevens-smash/
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Perhaps. I also don't see an issue with combining both the 5 Aus and NZ Super Rugby franchises for a 10 team league. They'd have to extend it a little from 20 to 30 days but would that be so bad?
My reasoning for going with the Super Rugby franchises is the tie-in opportunities it could present with Super Rugby proper. If they managed to get FTA on board and you get strong numbers you could effectively advertise the fact that Super Rugby is coming up and if you want to continue to support team X tune in or turn up.
T
TOCC
Guest
Unless there is a change to the rugby calendar i don't see anyway a sevens comp could be introduced, at least not one which would feature the best rugby players in the country..
Dec-Feb is 5 weeks of holidays & pre-season for the professional players, firstly its a mandated break for players by the CBA and secondly super rugby clubs won't want to have a tournament run during a pre-season which is already quite limited in length.
Feb - Aug: Super Rugby
Sep - Oct: NRC/ITM/Rugby Championship
Oct - Nov: Spring Tour
Nov - Dec: Holidays
Dec - Feb: Pre-Season
There simply isn't any room in the calendar for a 3 week tournament where either the Wallabies or Super Rugby teams aren't playing. So i think you have to rule out including the top 35 Wallaby squad members in the country, which really only leaves one window for some form of tournament, and that would be in the July Test Window.
Dec-Feb is 5 weeks of holidays & pre-season for the professional players, firstly its a mandated break for players by the CBA and secondly super rugby clubs won't want to have a tournament run during a pre-season which is already quite limited in length.
Feb - Aug: Super Rugby
Sep - Oct: NRC/ITM/Rugby Championship
Oct - Nov: Spring Tour
Nov - Dec: Holidays
Dec - Feb: Pre-Season
There simply isn't any room in the calendar for a 3 week tournament where either the Wallabies or Super Rugby teams aren't playing. So i think you have to rule out including the top 35 Wallaby squad members in the country, which really only leaves one window for some form of tournament, and that would be in the July Test Window.
I think the National Championships contested by club teams that have finished in high positions in a state based competition makes the most sense.
As TOCC says, there isn't the possibility of stretching the Super Rugby teams further. I'm surprised they've said yes to the 10s. Presumably they are getting a reasonable amount of money to participate and/or think the preparation is reasonable for XVs.
The problem with any 7s event is that it has to involve a lot of people. Even if the players weren't being paid it is still an incredibly cost event to put on. 3 hours of 7s requires a lot of people.
As TOCC says, there isn't the possibility of stretching the Super Rugby teams further. I'm surprised they've said yes to the 10s. Presumably they are getting a reasonable amount of money to participate and/or think the preparation is reasonable for XVs.
The problem with any 7s event is that it has to involve a lot of people. Even if the players weren't being paid it is still an incredibly cost event to put on. 3 hours of 7s requires a lot of people.
T
TOCC
Guest
Womens Sevens is a different story, given that the HSBC World Rugby Sevens is the only professional tournament for women, there is plenty of opportunity and room within the calendar to run a Domestic Sevens Tournament, and perhaps thats what the ARU needs to pursue, push for a women's domestic Sevens tournament which can get on FTA.
Mens Sevens will always be an issue, for the product to be commercialised you need the best rugby players in the country, but there is no room in the calendar to allow that to happen. I think for the men, the best you will get is a semi-amateur domestic sevens tournament running concurrent to the Super Rugby season, it won't attract the broadcasters, but at least provides a development pathway for the Sevens program.
Mens Sevens will always be an issue, for the product to be commercialised you need the best rugby players in the country, but there is no room in the calendar to allow that to happen. I think for the men, the best you will get is a semi-amateur domestic sevens tournament running concurrent to the Super Rugby season, it won't attract the broadcasters, but at least provides a development pathway for the Sevens program.
Do any other teams apart from the Waratahs do women's 7s as the half time entertainment?
In my years of going to the Tahs it is easily the best half time entertainment they've had and the crowd actually gets engaged by it.
All the teams should be doing it.
In my years of going to the Tahs it is easily the best half time entertainment they've had and the crowd actually gets engaged by it.
All the teams should be doing it.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Welll, the article provides a window in November for it to be run and won over a 20 day period. If you start it on October 31st it would have run its course by November 20th.
As for as I am aware, November isn't a holiday month anywhere in Australia. Not that it matters. The BBL runs over 8 weeks from December through January and hardly struggles for crowds let alone ratings. Yes, while I am aware that the BBL is Cricket it still doesn't mean we cannot at least try.
Finally, the BBL runs essentially its entire season without any or very little involvement of the Test squad. It's effectively domestic 'no-namers' plus marquees who many of the audience probably know little about anyway. Hasn't hurt it in anyway. Besides, looking honestly at it, how many of our current Wallaby team has a significant public profile. Two maybe three.
I like the idea of a national club championship but not as our primary commerical product. What it would be perfect for is 1)participation and engagement and 2)talent identification.
Give each of the premier clubs in each respective state automatic entry into their State Championship tournament. From there split each city up into gepgraphic based regions alongside the traditional coutnry regions. Within each region run multi-divisional regional leagues spanning social to competitive over a 6-10 week period. This would allow for a maximisation of participation while also allowing for athletes from different spots to enter for the opportunity to try and progress. Make it open to all comers. Teams nominate which division they want to compete. Either social or elite. Social is then broken into sub-categories like lightweight, open, heavyweights etc to maximise involvement. Elite compete within themselves. After the final of each regional league a regional select squad is chosen to then compete against the premier clubs in their respective state tournament.
Teams qualify for the 16 team national tournament as per the structure already proposed a little earlier in the discussion. Though, this doesn't mean you would have to get to this point to be seen. The idea of regional selects alongside the premier clubs is to allow for the best possible talent to be identified at the state level.
This structure could be run post 15s club season. This would allow the teams in the proposed Sevens series to look at the best talent outside of their current squad in their respective states.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
But who are the best players in the country? Evidence suggests that in terms of 7s that doesn't necessarily mean it's the 15s guys. Also, as I suggest in my post above. The BBL operates with little to no involvement from the Test squad. Unless you're a Cricket fan to begin with you'll likely have very little idea who the marquee players are let alone the domesitc guys. Certainly hasn't hurt it.
T
TOCC
Guest
Its not a matter of it been a 'holiday month', its a matter of it been a designated rest period for the players within the RUPA Collective Bargaining Agreement to prevent player burnout and make up for other holidays the players miss throughout the year.
Given that the NRC GF is on the 22nd Oct, thats means the 'leave period' is from 22 Oct - 4 Dec. For Wallabies players this means they won't return to training until January.
Given that we now have the Global Tens on the 11-12th Feb, if all players were to play through Nov then that would give Super Rugby clubs a 4 week pre-season.