Rugby 7s general chat

[RedsHappy]

RH the Aussie touch Champs are crawling with NRL scouts, and its the perfect example of why the Men's coach has it much more difficult than the Women's.

Tim Walsh can offer a contract to a promising young touch player that's the most money she will make playing sport. Friend can only a relative pittance (even though it might be the same amount!)

Shannon Walker quit because he couldn't afford to fly to see his family between tournaments!

Desite this, have a look back through the ARU's press releases to see how many non-rugby guys have had a crack. Barba, Winterstein, Parahi, Fou etc

The chance to be one of the few that make the Olympics will be a draw, but we're not going to get 3/4 years of commitment out of the top male athletes to make it happen. They juat have too many other options

Cobber - let me come back to this later as out of time now but may I just say as a holding comment that will offend some: IMO pumping $ millions into the Force and yet having only chicken shit $s build a world-class men's 7s team, and so never building one or even getting close, is strategic madness as IMO having successful men's and women's 7s teams - and also increasingly good east coast 7s competitions - will do more to overall promote rugby in this country than chronically failing S18 teams in peripheral rugby markets will ever do.

I'd also argue that increasingly successful 7s teams will bring way more quality sponsorship $s in over time than failing and marginal S18 franchises ever will.

It's all about strategically smart resource allocation.

 

[Braveheart81]

Cobber - let me come back to this later as out of time now but may I just say as a holding comment that will offend some: IMO pumping $ millions into the Force and yet having only chicken shit $s build a world-class men's 7s team, and so never building one or even getting close, is strategic madness as IMO having successful men's and women's 7s teams - and also increasingly good east coast 7s competitions - will do more to overall promote rugby in this country than chronically failing S18 teams in peripheral rugby markets will ever do.

I'd also argue that increasingly successful 7s teams will bring way more quality sponsorship $s in over time than failing and marginal S18 franchises ever will.

It's all about strategically smart resource allocation.

The challenge is working out how much resources should be contributed and how best to do that.

Salaries do need to be increased but the question of how far and how much benefit they will achieve in terms of recruitment is important to determine.

It also needs to be remembered that expenditure on Super Rugby to ensure we field 5 teams is part of our requirement for drawing our share of the overall broadcast deal and is important for providing professional players for the Wallabies.

The professionalism of our 7s programme has undoubtedly increased significantly in the last few years but has a lot further to go. It is still stuck somewhat in the past though as a transition from schoolboys to Super Rugby for young players and a place where players who don't cut it in Super Rugby end up.

I feel like the end game is to have a mix of dedicated career Sevens players who really suit the game and are rewarded well (e.g. Ed Jenkins). A few younger guys who are going to do an Olympic cycle before transitioning to XVs (e.g. Cam Clark) and a few somewhat speculative recruits from other sports who have enormous potential upside (e.g. Pama Fou).

It can't be a place where players end up because they couldn't crack it at Super Rugby and it is the next best option available to them.

 

[I like to watch]

Are they all proven Sevens players?

Mate if you can play test footy, you will kill it it at 7's guaranteed ( tight 5 excepted)
It's a simpler game,played by a lower grade of players.

 

[Highlander35]

Mark Robertson now has a silver medal because Edinburgh let him go after a few injuries, then failed to secure a London Scottish contract after a 4 week trial.

So does Norton, who's playing in the English 4th division I think when not on the circuit.

Think it can be a place for the rejects, but just because one "reject" may be good enough, it doesn't mean another is. Kingston clearly didn't. Cutch did.

I still firmly believe that when the Reds cut Ben Lucas, the ARU should have secured him for the sevens program, including finding him either a Japanese contract or a Super one. Him in for Chucky would have made a difference alone.

 

[RedsHappy]

Quoting B Gosper World Rugby CEO in news.com.au:

"TV ratings are yet to be finalised but the appeal of Australia’s win, and the women’s Olympic sevens tournament in general, generated the biggest social media traffic for a sevens tournament ever — male or female.​

​

Along with a hard-fought tournament, celebrity attendees, and a boisterous crowd, the sevens is already tracking well to become a permanent Olympic family member, said Gosper.​

​

“It was very special. Great rugby, great atmosphere. There is a lot of feedback from IOC members that they loved being here, so that’s ticking the boxes in our evaluations. It sits very in the Olympic program, that’s what is everyone is telling us,” he said.​

 

[RedsHappy]

Worth reading:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/olympic...ns-rugby-at-rio-olympics-20160811-gqqs6j.html

 

[wamberal]

Mate if you can play test footy, you will kill it it at 7's guaranteed ( tight 5 excepted)
It's a simpler game,played by a lower grade of players.

Quade????? He was available.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Mate if you can play test footy, you will kill it it at 7's guaranteed ( tight 5 excepted)
It's a simpler game,played by a lower grade of players.

There was a time when that was true, but those days are long gone. Which isn't the same as saying that no XV's player could make it at 7's, there's plenty that could & a few that have (& in both cases more than have done so going from 7's to XV's) but that it's nowhere near as easy as some would like to think. The best evidence for that being, IMO, how few have actually done it.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Quade????? He was available.

Couldn't get a run in test footy last start

 

[I like to watch]

There was a time when that was true, but those days are long gone. Which isn't the same as saying that no XV's player could make it at 7's, there's plenty that could & a few that have (& in both cases more than have done so going from 7's to XV's) but that it's nowhere near as easy as some would like to think. The best evidence for that being, IMO, how few have actually done it.

How many have tried & failed?
Speight was a disappointment, I'll give you that.
The honey badger looked woeful in just first start back,but improved immensely next start with improved fitness,then he was injured.
QC (Quade Cooper) was ever really given an opportunity.
MCMahon & Gill both dominated with little preperation.

Very few do it,because there is a fraction of the money in 7's,compared to mens Rugby.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^ Gill & McMahon both debuted for Aus7's as teenagers & AFIK neither has played HSBC or Olympic qualifying since turning 21? In terms of who's tried & failed I guess it's a question of whether you're just talking about Australia or in general. If Australia only then, yes, the ones you've listed plus maybe one or two others but if we're talking in general then surely Liam Messam & others have to come into the equation?

 

[Highlander35]

What Comm games were you watching where Gill and McMahon dominated? They were good yes, but about 7 kgs too heavy apiece, and with that came the lack of explosive pace.

 

[Quick Hands]

Cobber - let me come back to this later as out of time now but may I just say as a holding comment that will offend some: IMO pumping $ millions into the Force and yet having only chicken shit $s build a world-class men's 7s team, and so never building one or even getting close, is strategic madness as IMO having successful men's and women's 7s teams - and also increasingly good east coast 7s competitions - will do more to overall promote rugby in this country than chronically failing S18 teams in peripheral rugby markets will ever do.

I'd also argue that increasingly successful 7s teams will bring way more quality sponsorship $s in over time than failing and marginal S18 franchises ever will.

It's all about strategically smart resource allocation.

7s will only get bigger after these olympics. The ARU really need to use the publicity for every cent that it's worth. This is a huge free kick in terms of exposure and recognition, but also in terms of future opportunity for athletes.

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^^^ Gill & McMahon both debuted for Aus7's as teenagers & AFIK neither has played HSBC or Olympic qualifying since turning 21? In terms of who's tried & failed I guess it's a question of whether you're just talking about Australia or in general. If Australia only then, yes, the ones you've listed plus maybe one or two others but if we're talking in general then surely Liam Messam & others have to come into the equation?

when you are citing Messam as a 7's failure,are you referring to his stint as a 32yo, or the 20yo that captained the kiwis to win it?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^ where & when did I class Messam as a failure?

 

[neilc]

In Australia certainly 7s for men is seen as an option only for those who can't get a Super Rugby gig, Olympic year excepted. The converting other athletes is a difficult one, it certainly worked for the women's but would it work for men? I think that they need to make 7s an attractive option so that players who are suited to it (and I think some players are better suited to it than they are to 15s) choose it.

From what I saw the Aussie mens just seemed to lack the spark and creativity that was needed. Friend has had a limited time with the team, having inherited it from the Welsh guy (who suspiciously bogged off approaching the Olympics year, maybe got out because he wouldn't look good with the expected results?), and prior to that O'Connor had the role for years with limited results. What has been the development and recruitment plan for 7s? Speed is clearly needed but I think that a good playmaker, just as in 15s, is vital too, and Australia seems to lack that. This is a more difficult role to fill. What are the skills/capabilities of a good 7s playmaker? Where do you find that? Is it something that can be developed in say a capable Premier club level inside back?

 

[Quick Hands]

In Australia certainly 7s for men is seen as an option only for those who can't get a Super Rugby gig, Olympic year excepted. The converting other athletes is a difficult one, it certainly worked for the women's but would it work for men? I think that they need to make 7s an attractive option so that players who are suited to it (and I think some players are better suited to it than they are to 15s) choose it.

From what I saw the Aussie mens just seemed to lack the spark and creativity that was needed. Friend has had a limited time with the team, having inherited it from the Welsh guy (who suspiciously bogged off approaching the Olympics year, maybe got out because he wouldn't look good with the expected results?), and prior to that O'Connor had the role for years with limited results. What has been the development and recruitment plan for 7s? Speed is clearly needed but I think that a good playmaker, just as in 15s, is vital too, and Australia seems to lack that. This is a more difficult role to fill. What are the skills/capabilities of a good 7s playmaker? Where do you find that? Is it something that can be developed in say a capable Premier club level inside back?

The problem with our campaign for Rio was that we spent 3 years under Geraint John playing risk averse rugby, tyring not to lose so that we could finish in the top 4 and qualify. (which they didn't do btw - we had to play Tonga in a repecharge to get in, but I digress). Only after he was punted did things start to improve, but the run was too late.

IMO Fiji were worthy and deserved winners of olympic gold.

I'd also make the comment that Team GB (with the addition of a few Scots and Welsh) would have been better off just picking England as their representative. The team seemed to lack a bit of cohesion at times. Either that or play the whole olympic year as GB, not separate countries.

 

[neilc]

The problem with our campaign for Rio was that we spent 3 years under Geraint John playing risk averse rugby, tyring not to lose so that we could finish in the top 4 and qualify. (which they didn't do btw - we had to play Tonga in a repecharge to get in, but I digress). Only after he was punted did things start to improve, but the run was too late.

IMO Fiji were worthy and deserved winners of olympic gold.

I'd also make the comment that Team GB (with the addition of a few Scots and Welsh) would have been better off just picking England as their representative. The team seemed to lack a bit of cohesion at times. Either that or play the whole olympic year as GB, not separate countries.

Not sure that they can play the whole year as GB - that would depend on the 7s series rules, it is just Olympics that makes the separate countries compete as one.

No question that Fiji are deserved winners, I always expected that they would get there although didn't expect such a one sided final. Japan doing so well was also fantastic, really good to see and that has to help boost them and 7s in general.

Risk averse is a good description, that seems to be how they are still playing.

 

[KAOPointman]

What is this, the fuckin border crossing? Not sure if their paperwork is in order Sir but I'd still like to see someone try staying in front of Milner Skudder or DMckenzie with only 7 people stretched across the width of the field!

That's only part of the equation tho......what happens when Israel Folou out jumps them both at every kick off, giving them no possession to attack with. Can Mckensie and Skudder defend a 7s field??? You need a rugby brain suited for 7s.

Fiji for eg dominates 7s atm by keeping possession and playing for gaps and offloads! That's it!!! No super steppers......no super speedsters......just lots of great all round talented rugby 7 minded players.

I think Aus 7s has an awfully hard job ahead, trying to attract elite capable athletes into the sport for extended periods of time! Downside of too many elite sports played here I spose!

 

[half]

Cobber - let me come back to this later as out of time now but may I just say as a holding comment that will offend some: IMO pumping $ millions into the Force and yet having only chicken shit $s build a world-class men's 7s team, and so never building one or even getting close, is strategic madness as IMO having successful men's and women's 7s teams - and also increasingly good east coast 7s competitions - will do more to overall promote rugby in this country than chronically failing S18 teams in peripheral rugby markets will ever do.

I'd also argue that increasingly successful 7s teams will bring way more quality sponsorship $s in over time than failing and marginal S18 franchises ever will.

It's all about strategically smart resource allocation.

Brilliantly said