Rougeries's eye gouge

[Inside Shoulder]

When you saw it in real time? There was no way you saw it in real time - on the camera angle of the original broadcast you couldn't see that there'd been any contact with Parra at all.

The idea that McCaw could time that contact at full pace whilst looking at Dusatoir and making sure to hit him with the shoulder without breaking stride is frankly ludicrous.

Sure it is - i picked it the first time i saw it - whatever angle it was - and there's simply no doubt about it.
There's no too much that happens out there at that level that isn't deliberate.
You'll never be persuaded so lets leave it.

 

[Jay]

Sure it is - i picked it the first time i saw it - whatever angle it was - and there's simply no doubt about it.
There's no too much that happens out there at that level that isn't deliberate.
You'll never be persuaded so lets leave it.

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Watch that full replay at 9:40 on the game clock and tell me with a straight face you saw contact at real time.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Watch that full replay at 9:40 on the game clock and tell me with a straight face you saw contact at real time.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/video/index.html

Read what I wrote - I am conceding it may have been a reverse angle replay....what i am asserting is that as soon as i saw it I knew

 

[Jay]

Read what I wrote - I am conceding it may have been a reverse angle replay....what i am asserting is that as soon as i saw it I knew

Oh well. That's a baffling conclusion, but whatever.

 

[HKTiger]

Give it a rest Jay. He's Sir Richie, not St. Richie.

He's as hard as they come and he gets his digs in as often as anyone else at that level. You don't play his role for as long and as well as RM has without being as hard as nails and giving as good as you get. All kudos to him, but don't make him out to be something he isn't i.e. a Saint.

 

[sudrugby]

Carter has another sabbatical clause in his NZRU contract (like his previous foray into French club rugby).

McCaw does too, I believe, though he's said in the past he'd probably use it to take a break from rugby and recuperate.

I'm not sure that it is interesting for the All Blacks to keep McCaw for 4 more years anyway... With Matt Todd pushing behind it would be a mistake

 

[Jay]

Give it a rest Jay. He's Sir Richie, not St. Richie.

He's as hard as they come and he gets his digs in as often as anyone else at that level. You don't play his role for as long and as well as RM has without being as hard as nails and giving as good as you get. All kudos to him, but don't make him out to be something he isn't i.e. a Saint.

I'm not making him out to be a saint, but I honestly don't see how anyone can look at the timing of this actual incident and conclude it was anything other than accidental. I'd have the same opinion if it were Schalk Burger, Bakkies Botha or Vlad the Impaler doing the same thing.

 

[Jay]

I'm not sure that it is interesting for the All Blacks to keep McCaw for 4 more years anyway... With Matt Todd pushing behind it would be a mistake

Yeah, I seriously doubt that he'll be there in 4 years to be honest.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm not making him out to be a saint, but I honestly don't see how anyone can look at the timing of this actual incident and conclude it was anything other than accidental. I'd have the same opinion if it were Schalk Burger, Bakkies Botha or Vlad the Impaler doing the same thing.

Jay,

We were split in my house between the frogs and the ABs and I confess to backing the frogs.

When we saw it both sides agreed it was deliberate. I'm not saying that makes you wrong or me right all I'm suggesting is that love of country might be impairing your judgment on this one.

There's room for different interpretations.

We also immediately agreed that RM was claiming to be gouged from lip reading and the state of his eye (did the refs mike catch it? I recall that Andre Watson used to cover his mike when things like that were being discussed). Rm would not make the allegation without a basis.

A mark of how good his lordship is is that when he knees someone in the noggin there's at least room to argue whether it was deliberate, as opposed to when QC (Quade Cooper) does it.

 

[pete88]

To be honest, I didn't think there was any dangerous intent in the O'Driscoll tackle. If O'Driscoll had rolled with the tackle rather than putting his arm in a stupid place he wouldn't have been injured at all. I don't mind the interpretation of the law that says the tackler is responsible if they lift someone, but what O'Driscoll did was terrible technique, and caused his injury more than the tackle.

So you have to have the right technique when someone drives you head first towards the ground? My coaches have failed me...

Supposition.

Every bit as much supposition as "Rougerie was trying to hurt McCaw's eyes" I guess.

For what it's worth I'm surprised people think McCaw did that on purpose, if not it was seriously some of the most skilled foul play I've ever seen, he managed to give his all to the tackle contest simultaneously. I guess I shouldn't put it past Richie, he is a ridiculously good forward...

 

[Flymagnet]

McCaw would be trampled to pieces if we got rucking back and Pocock would have bled like a slaughtered ox in the quarters.

We can only dream.

Pocock has the skill to arrive just at the right time and anchor above the ball carrying player. I have rarely seen him on the floor (like Sir Ritchie). Nevertheless, he does seem a rather resiient lad as evidenced by the Shalk Burger attempt to rip his face off thence pull his head from his shoulders twice (right in front of Bryce Lawrence who obviously believed this was just a bit of male bonding). Personally, having been stomped many times and finding it an effective cure for last nights hangover, reckon it should be brought back as part of the traditional game.

 

[Jay]

So you have to have the right technique when someone drives you head first towards the ground? My coaches have failed me...



Every bit as much supposition as "Rougerie was trying to hurt McCaw's eyes" I guess.

My viewing of the BOD incident was that both Umaga & Mealamu were attempting the 'pick up a leg and tip the guy over' style of clear out without realising that the other was also doing it too, which meant that instead of BOD being tipped off balance, he was lifted up to head height. I've always said it was reckless though, and should have seen both of them cop a suspension (Mealamu for longer than Umaga as he didn't pull out).

 

[WhoDaresWin]

Everyone, since we're all sensible people here.

Let's all look at the situation here for what it is - EYE-GOUGING.

Forget about who was the recipient (never mind if it's RM, Pocock or whoever)...but this shit should be dealt with more harshly by the iRB for it has no place in our beautiful game. Minimum ban of 1-yr to a maximum of a life ban.

iRB should change the rules and cite offenders even if it's 1 month after the game. Losing your sight is not something to be taken lightly.

 

[Jnor]

I don't want to buy into the conspiracy stuff too much but apart from the Italian bloke there's been no official mention of eye gouging so perhaps it's something the IRB want to avoid any coverage of, and as such only cite the most blatant/damaging incidents of it? Obviously the more people get cited/suspended, the more it's in the media and brings down the image, or 'brand', of the game.

Or maybe they're just a bunch of overpaid clowns who don't know anything?

 

[Schadenfreude]

So you have to have the right technique when someone drives you head first towards the ground? My coaches have failed me...

No-one ever taught you how to avoid getting injured in a tackle? Don't put your arm out is No 1.

The whole thing is massively overhyped - and he wasn't "driven towards the ground" watch the video.

 

[FrankLind]

Why is it left up to sides to report these issues? If someone is caught they should be dealt with.

But yeah bit rich of McCaw to let this go after siting Cooper. Double standards?

McCaw tends to not be a whining bitch.

 

[Braveheart81]

Did McCaw every really whinge about Cooper?

I think TJ is the biggest whinger from NZ. He gives Marto a run for his money.

Actually, Marto whinges more than everyone. If Marto was a Kiwi he'd mention the underarm incident daily.

 

[pete88]

My viewing of the BOD incident was that both Umaga & Mealamu were attempting the 'pick up a leg and tip the guy over' style of clear out without realising that the other was also doing it too, which meant that instead of BOD being tipped off balance, he was lifted up to head height. I've always said it was reckless though, and should have seen both of them cop a suspension (Mealamu for longer than Umaga as he didn't pull out).

No-one ever taught you how to avoid getting injured in a tackle? Don't put your arm out is No 1.

The whole thing is massively overhyped - and he wasn't "driven towards the ground" watch the video.

Just rewatched it (hilarious to hear an excerpt of Graham Henry saying "I think we should move on, quite frankly I think it's ridiculous that it's continuing", makes me think he was acting like a hypocritical failed abortion much more than I first did after the Semi), I think he was driven head first towards the ground, we'll have to agree to disagree I guess. Mealamu in particular drove him to ground, with intent for me, but whatever. I agree with 2005 Father Ted and think we should move on indeed (can't remember how this started, probably me).

Oh and actually you're right Schadenfreude, I think I was told to not stick your hand out once or twice now I think about it, but the main reason I've never really done it is that I wasn't having to protect my neck/head, but had been drilled about not losing the ball in contact so I always want to have two mitts on the pill. As O'Driscoll said on one of the videos I was watching, he kind of had a split-second choice between protecting his head or not, I think trying to roll and hoping that his weight was dropped/driven/whatever in a direction that meant his roll didn't break his neck would have been unwise.

Anyway, moving on, Rougerie is a filthy eyegouger and serious foul play like that should not have a 48 hour citing period. A distinction needs to be made between reckless play (Warburton in the semi, Quade Cooper and Jacque Fourie last year) and malicious play, such as eye gouging, king hits etc.

 

[pete88]

Did McCaw every really whinge about Cooper?

Yeah he kind of did, talked about how it was disappointing that Quade got away with it etc in an interview at the start of the RWC off the top of my head, possibly other times as well but I can't be arsed to check and can't remember. Did the ABs report Quade after Brissie?

I think reporting an eyegouge is hardly whinging though, I mean I know he's got post-RWC celebrations to get on with, but a quick "check footage of last 5 or so minutes for a French player eyegouging me at the bottom of a ruck, play was stopped for me shortly after" to the citing commissioner, perhaps via the manager, couldn't have hurt. Bet you any money they would have reported it if the French had won.

 

[Lee Enfield]

Just because Rougerie has hand near/on McCaws eye doesn't mean he had the intent of gouging his eye. None of the photos show where Rougerie was looking or show him feeling around to find McCaws eye. Just Like McCaws fist and knee making accidental conduct with Parras head, Rougeries fingers could be accidentally making contact McCaws eye. If the IRB thought Rougerie eye gouged McCaw, then Rougerie would have been cited by the match review panel.
No citing, no case to answer, not guilty.