Rocky road ahead for Rocky...........

[Groucho]

It was super rugby, but the reds tried to play without a strong fetcher in super rugby couple of times and fell over badly.

It's not so much that players like Pocock, Robinson, Waugh et al are going to win you as much ball this year so much as (if they can find the balance in the ref's eyes) they can hassle the opposition's ball enough to break up their flow. Finding that balance has been especially hard for Pocock. I don't know how Robinson got away with so much, he always seemed more obvious in infringing.

He's not as famous.

 

[Gnostic]

It was super rugby, but the reds tried to play without a strong fetcher in super rugby couple of times and fell over badly.

It's not so much that players like Pocock, Robinson, Waugh et al are going to win you as much ball this year so much as (if they can find the balance in the ref's eyes) they can hassle the opposition's ball enough to break up their flow. Finding that balance has been especially hard for Pocock. I don't know how Robinson got away with so much, he always seemed more obvious in infringing.

But we have all commented to some degree on the changing role of McCaw. He is nowhere near as "on the ball" as he was in years gone by and it isn't just he is slower. He has changed his running lines subtly. My point is the pure fetcher role is gone, if the 7 can't run and link and add real power at the ruck the backrow will be at a disadvantage. Like I said I think Pocock can adapt his play and his physique speaks volumes about the power he can deliver at ruck time. The key would be the change in mindset from always going for the ball directly and winning it by "real" rucking and driving past the ball with preferably another backrow partner. Hence why I had said perhaps it was time to explore that "old" style backrow. It is what I believe the ABs have done indeed even if McCaw is injured who will they put at 7?

I think we will see a very dominant England forward pack for just this reason and perhaps the Frogs as well if they decide to turn up.

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

I fail to see any better blindside candidates?

Marto is an idiot... his Higginbotham manlove was nauseating to listen to on the weekend...

He overshadowed Phil Kearns' "we wuz robbed" commentary...

Big call. Kearns seemed to disappear once the Tahs were out of the running. It seemed to pain him immensely to see the Reds succeed. He magically disappeared from commentary. Anyways, Horan is the worst of the lot.

 

[Cutter]

We're forgetting about specialist positions here as well. Higgers has shown for the Reds that he's not an 8. Elsom has shown for the Wallabies that he's not an 8. Palu, Samo, McCalman and Dennis (who played well at 8 after Mowen was injured) have shown they are 8s. Palu and Samo are not 6s. Having said that, each of these guys could cover the other position off the bench if needed.

Bearing in mind all of that, in my mind (but clearly not the mind of Deans or Williams or Nucifora), Higgers shouldn't be competing with Samo. He should be competing with Elsom. So, the relevant considerations being form, specialist skills and balance give us (and repeating my preferred backrow but not the back ups):

6. Dennis, Higgers, Elsom
7. Pocock, then even between Hodgson and Robinson
8. Samo, Dennis, McCalman (assuming Palu is injured)

16. Higgers, Elsom, Hodgson/Robinson, McCalman

Given what we've seen from the selectors, and, in particular the faith shown in Elsom, the only way we will see this is if Elsom is injured.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Gnostic, I would argue that a fetcher has always needed the skill set of running with the ball and linking with the backs. Various great opensides of several different nations possessed those qualities. The bloke in my avatar for a start, Poidevin, M Jones, Kronfeld, G Smith and Magne, to name a few. Of the modern breed, Pocock can (as you point out) do it too and McCaw does it already. With respect to power at the breakdown, that comes more from your locks and blindside, with some help from the eight if they are playing a bit tighter. Nothing wrong with the openside being in there and shifting rocks, but I don't see it as their primary function.

 

[DPK]

With the right equipment, his local gravity field can be used to prove general relativity.

He's proven general relativity, there just isn't anyone who can understand his broken English.

I heard he does King Kong impressions for pocket money.

 

[ChargerWA]

the only way we will see this is if Elsom is injured.

I've stopped short of hoping for this.......but gee it is tempting.

 

[Scotty]

Gnostic, I would argue that a fetcher has always needed the skill set of running with the ball and linking with the backs. Various great opensides of several different nations possessed those qualities. The bloke in my avatar for a start, Poidevin, M Jones, Kronfeld, G Smith and Magne, to name a few. Of the modern breed, Pocock can (as you point out) do it too and McCaw does it already. With respect to power at the breakdown, that comes more from your locks and blindside, with some help from the eight if they are playing a bit tighter. Nothing wrong with the openside being in there and shifting rocks, but I don't see it as their primary function.

I don't recall Wilson doing too much linking.

 

[Slim 293]

I've stopped short of hoping for this.......but gee it is tempting.

Instead of being a miserable sod, I'm hoping for him to get back to peak form. Because there's no one better.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't recall Wilson doing too much linking.

You'll notice he wasn't in my list. I'm not saying every openside did it, but many of the great ones have.

 

[Joe Blow]

McAWE was not always a great linker. Over time he developed that part of his game and Pocock is starting to do the same.
George Smith was/is a fantastic link man.
This is where McCalman fails as an 8 and where Samo and Higgers will be much stronger.
Your 8 traditionally should be the link between forwards and backs.

 

[Groucho]

McAWE was not always a great linker. Over time he developed that part of his game and Pocock is starting to do the same.
George Smith was/is a fantastic link man.
This is where McCalman fails as an 8 and where Samo and Higgers will be much stronger.
Your 8 traditionally should be the link between forwards and backs.

Are you saying the 8 plays a distributor role? That would be unusual in Australian rugby. Aussie 8s have typically been big, ball running units making hard yards in the tight. The 6 plays more of a distributor role. The Kiwis tend to play the reverse.

 

[Joe Blow]

There is a lot more interchanging play between backs and forwards these days but with the 8 taking the ball at the back of the scrum and just in general linking terms, the 8s I played with(some time ago) were normally the most skilled forwards in distributing and linking.
These days our front rowers are as adept as some of our backs in this area and frequently get involved in open play.
Kefu was a good example(and a great 8). Reed and Spies are also current like players at the top level.
Higgers is tailor made for this type of role and Samo did a great job for Qld at Super level.

 

[Riptide]

Back on Elsom... I'm surprised by the lack of overt support emanating from the staff or players for their captain who has been taking a few hits lately, or have I missed something. Not even Deans was prepared to say a few token words.

Smit had several supportive comments, but Elsom seems to be standing on his own.

 

[Scotty]

Back on Elsom... I'm surprised by the lack of overt support emanating from the staff or players for their captain who has been taking a few hits lately, or have I missed something. Not even Deans was prepared to say a few token words.

Smit had several supportive comments, but Elsom seems to be standing on his own.

Pretty sure that deans did come out and support him in a recent presser.

 

[Scotty]

You'll notice he wasn't in my list. I'm not saying every openside did it, but many of the great ones have.

Sorry wasn't trying to call you out on this, just noting wilsons role being different, and it could be due to the other players around him. I personally like the 8 to have the linking ability as it normally means they have great hands which is required at the back of an aus scrum!

 

[Scotty]

Ok lanky was probably not the right word, he's not thin but he's tall, he has more of a lock's body that' not very good for straight up running.

I don't think he is far off the right shape. 6'6 and about 116.

Kaino is 6'5 and about 110
Read is 6'4 and about 110

 

[Scarfman]

6s and 8s can take different roles. You can play this combination differently. Some teams like a 6/lock which means the 8 can be more nuggetty / solid. Some teams will look for a tall 8 which means you can play a destroyer (eg Collins) at 6. I think you look at the personnel you have a try to find the right balance between abilities and roles.

The only guy who is a shoe-in is Pocock, who is an on-ball player and a short arse. (Which makes things very difficult for a short-arse 6/7 like Hodgson). If you also have Palu then you need a real workhose AND a lineout specialist (Elsom). Without Palu you can find a nice mix of those qualities in your 6 and 8.

I reckon Higgenbatty could easily wear an 8 on his back if his role is defined appropriately.

 

[Reddy!]

When are roles in a Deans Wallabies team ever defined appropriately...or defined at all.

 

[ChargerWA]

Instead of being a miserable sod, I'm hoping for him to get back to peak form. Because there's no one better.

How would we know? Depite being perpetually underdone he has a mortgage on the 6 jersey. Higgers given the chance might blow him out of the water.

I agree Rocky has a history of doing well, but where the fuck is the reward for form?