Robbie Deans Report Card

[cyclopath]

Yeh some members on this forum take comments really personally and will bite, which shows that they are passionate but massive angry heads. As a model poster on this forum I can tell you that your best bet is to not be lured in and even just drop the topic; post on something else.

:lmao::lmao: Are you 5? Classic post, Reddy!

 

[Scarfman]

All good advice. I didn't see the live chat stuff so won't comment.

 

[rsea]

I don't mind putting my hand up and saying I told redshappy to stop whining in the live chat, but I think we're all being a bit sensitive. Me for blowing up in the live chat (over a topic I'd been trying very hard to stay away from) and redshappy for going OTT about some pretty minor stuff.

For my part I apologise and I'll attempt to keep my head in future, and yes Reddy I can be a massive angry head hahahaha

 

[RedsHappy]

I would hope that the public is not quite that shallow. IMO I think the majority of the Australian rugby public can see that there is genuine excitement afoot (in the backs) and a injury toll that has us on the back foot (in the forwards). ....


......

I'm not so sure Daz, I hope you are right about that 'majority', I worry that it's by no means as rusted on as you infer. And I do think those Gosford crowd boos at the end of the game carry solemn omens that should be heeded, for the game's long-term health. Aussies crowds are not regular booers of national teams (unlike some other nations!) even when results are less than ideal.

It is I note not much discussed at GAGR, but a massive wake-up call should have been inflicted upon all lovers of Australian rugby when, in late 2009, the QRU admitted defeat in its then form and announced that it was basically bankrupt. The reasons were clear: (a) it had got itself into a major economic mess with the Ballymore assets and, more serious, (b) years of declining gate receipts from home Reds games had taken a huge toll on cash income and core solvency.

The QRU/QLD rugby is, well, approx 40% of Aus rugby in a core contribution sense. By 2009 the Reds had, what, 5++ years of v poor performance behind them, inexcusably no one took decisive action in the name of the fans and the game, complacency was rife, the then QRU Board was (defamation issues intercede my text), and droves of historical game attendees stopped being that, and defected to AFL, soccer league, whatever. It's obvious why those 'once were fans' left. The Reds were playing a mess of erratic skills, indecisive kicking displays, uneven player dedication and quality, and, as we all know, were losing and certainly not entertaining (in most cases). The consistently poor home w-l ratio was the biggest problem.

The central point can end on a positive note: the 2010 renaissance! But this arose from long overdue radical management and coaching changes (though anyone who does not heavily credit Mooney's role in the finding and developing of Cooper, Genia and say the Faingaas and many other secondary stars of the Reds 2010 is not honouring the facts). Then came the wonderfully dynamic, cohesive 2010 Reds play style, and the the big wins over the S14 titans.

Then, guess what, something like an average of 10,000 fans per game gradually came back! QRU on a path to economic survival again.

W-L ratio _and_ entertaining, dynamic play (as perceived by the everyday fan) is central to the economic health of our game. Reds 2010 proved that conclusively (if it needed proving). And with the cash overhead/operating cost levels in professional rugby today, if the fans die away, it's not just economic health in a tactical sense. It's about strategic survival for the whole code in Australia.

 

[Reddy!]

Yeeeahhh, going to turn the heat back on Deans now. Not going to let him get away with another soft defeat.

I wonder if he is just unable to get his team fired up before the game and at half time if they are down on the scoreboard, in a way perhaps an Aussie coach could do better.

 

[Blue]

Yeeeahhh, going to turn the heat back on Deans now. Not going to let him get away with another soft defeat.

I wonder if he is just unable to get his team fired up before the game and at half time if they are down on the scoreboard, in a way perhaps an Aussie coach could do better.

We were right in front of the coache's box last night and he looked like he had seen a ghost after the game. My English mate thought it would be a good idea to wave at him I though Topo was going to come through the glass at us. Might have something to do with me being in a Bok jersey and my mate in an English jersey.

 

[RedsHappy]

...We were right in front of the coache's box last night and he looked like he had seen a ghost after the game. .....)

This is _not_ a knocking comment re Deans, but there's no doubt he has looked (on TV at least) more and more anxious and downcast this year (compared with say as at the June 2009 internationals pre the Tris). And his speaking voice has gone softer and softer.

 

[rsea]

Lets hope the wind hasn't been knocked out of his sails. We need him to keep pushing us forward

All those who said we shouldn't have gotten out of the first game with a malfunctioning scrum were absolutely right and proven so on Saturday

 

[tranquility]

I still hold the faith in Aussy Robbie.

 

[Reddy!]

I still hold the faith in Aussy Robbie.

Like those who are religious and believe in God, it is just irrational.

To me it seems the bar is set lower every game:

2008. As long as Deans is going to lead the Wallabies to World Cup, Tri-Nations, Bledisloe, Mandela plate glory and become the number 1 ranked team in the process, I will keep my faith in him.

2009. As long as Deans is going to lead the Wallabies to a Tri-Nations and Bledisloe win and ultimately the World Cup, I will keep my faith in him.

2009 Tri-Nations. As long as Deans coaches the Wallabies to 1 victory over the All Blacks this year, I will keep my faith in him.

2009 Spring Tour. As long as Deans coaches the Wallabies to a win next game, I will keep my faith in him.

2010. As long as Deans helps the Wallabies scrum become slightly competitive, despite losing games, I will keep my faith in him.

So what next?

2010 Tri-Nations. As long as Deans ensures the Wallabies don't miss the bus to the game, I will keep my faith in him.

2011? Well I guess there is still the World Cup thingy, phew! I have faith that Robbie Deans will coach the Wallabies to victories over the All Blacks, Springboks, France etc, because you know, he really has been doing it so far!

 

[Reddy!]

Unsure if this has been posted as of yet; this bloke shares my sentiment to the obsession surrounding the quest for unlikely World Cup glory in the current test arena.

Development scourge: World Cup hurts Test rugby
ADAM FREIER
June 20, 2010



'Toby [Flood] is getting some valuable experience down here and Jonny is Jonny."

Martin Johnson's decision to keep Jonny Wilkinson out of England's starting XV so others can draw "experience" had a lot of Wallabies and English supporters baffled.

When did a Test become a trial match? Shouldn't we be developing players in domestic tournaments or 'A' programs? When where we ever happy about fielding a team to learn from the bad experience of a loss?

The answer is obvious. Rugby World Cups as they presently stand are killing international rugby.

It seems that every comment or question is geared towards winning the World Cup. Sure, every Test is treated with the dignity and respect it deserves from the players and coaches' point of view, but it's a bitter pill to swallow when we consistently see European teams "develop" this time of year.

It is as if international matches have all become stepping stones to do well every four years. So what would happen if there wasn't this ceremonial succession plan?

Australian Test cricket is a great example of always fielding the best possible side. The quest is never geared towards an event every four years, but to hold the ICC Test Championship mace, a trophy for being the No.1 team in the world.

Australia are pioneers in the cricketing world. Why? For their pursuit of excellence in the form of always being world champions.

I can appreciate that athletics, swimming and other Olympic sports definitely have merit in building towards a gold medal every four years.

Their sports don't have the entertainment value in Australia to showcase it week-in week-out, as rugby most definitely can.

The quest to be No.1 and to always be "the best rugby nation" has lost its edge with continuous decisions to give players "experience".

Having international teams such as England come and develop players shows they are filling in the gaps before they head to New Zealand in 2011. We don't ever want to go down the garden path of football and have international "friendlies" - it's not fair on the players and more importantly, the paying fan.

The IRB needs to develop a points system that will enable teams to be accountable for the performance in between World Cups. As it stands the top 10 ranked teams in world rugby qualify, so the powerhouse French, English and Irish will qualify. But why not decide that ranking and pool teams two years early and make them more accountable?

With the ability for rankings to change according to your country's performance, teams will take more pride in their performance.

Further to that, if a team is to play outside their country in their "off season" as England are now, the team will be given bonus points.

Imagine the scenario on your way to watch the English take on the Wallabies last night at ANZ Stadium as an English fan, with your men desperately in need of some ranking points to get themselves out of the All Blacks' pool in New Zealand. A loss will see them have to play them in the opening round, while a win will see them move into a potentially easier group altogether.

Better still, imagine the Wallabies taking on France in Paris at the end of their European tour this year, with a potential win shooting them clear of their group and not facing South Africa in the semis. There is an added incentive to not only win a Test match but get a little sweet ride to "Bill". To go even further, can we or should we use the sevens circuit as an opportunity to build on that World Cup points system?

It's time for international rugby to become a genuine "test" of the best 15 players in each country taking the field and going to battle. How we get there is in the hands of the IRB.

 

[rsea]

heheheh come on now Reddy it aint that bad surely
I would like to see him take some "affirmative action" with the scrum though.

Do we have any experience expected back on board before the tri? sorry if I'm ill-informed on the topic

 

[rsea]

Unsure if this has been posted as of yet; this bloke shares my sentiment to the obsession surrounding the quest for unlikely World Cup glory in the current test arena.

A good question Reddy. The WC is so important to national rugby sides it virtually forms a calendar, but is this right? is this what the fans want? would fans prefer AB style all conquering success(apart from WC) or the reverse? hard to say but it's clear what John O'Neil chose and will it pay dividends in the long term?

 

[RedsHappy]

Lets hope the wind hasn't been knocked out of his sails. We need him to keep pushing us forward

....

rsea - let me pop in here - I honestly was a massive Deans enthusiast until we got into the Tris and BC last year, and then Tokyo, and then Murrayfield (and, sorry, I have to now add: Sydney vs England). Then hope and belief started to curdle, and moved to major concern that key pieces were missing.

I have little problem with the 'promoting talent' component of the manner of RD doing his job. He's unquestionably promoted some high-potential players and facilitated their confidence and growth. Tick, but that's a baseline expectation from top coaches, and one that the rugby media has got into the very bad habit of celebrating as though it completed the package. It does not. Much more than just talent selection and development is needed to get to the peak in a major global sport. Unfortunately, the extra required dimensions of critical rugby coaching capability are not being discussed very much at this time.

Where my concern has its focus is in the other critical dimensions of a top football coach's job that are not centred on raw selection and smart combinations. For example: building a team culture and psychology that inspires, disciplines, builds mental strength, is intolerant of skill lapses, creates and sustains intensity, drives hard every time, and is utterly relentless for victory, and does all this in an ultimately highly motivating way for the players. One might loosely call all this: the deeper aspects of the will to win, the things that really, actually make that will happen, and happen consistently. It's not wildly dissimilar to what great CEOs bring to really successful businesses. But there are of course differences in sport. Sport adds patriotism and mass appeal, that's what adds to the allure of watching a great coach build something of national, not financial, inspiration.

My worry is that the Deans' Wallabies are living in a place that is not inspired in the right manner, and actually has an inner psychology that is not strong enough to underpin consistency and the type of relentlessness required for getting to the very top. An allied fear is that the overwhelming focus today on experimentation and 'building for the future' etc is a kind of dangerous diversion device that is making us (and the Deans coaching team) feel good, but masks the fact that this alone is not enough, and that the Wallabies culture and team psychology is fundamentally not right.

We have to be able to explain: Perth, Test 1, defence outstanding and intense and consistent. Sydney, Test 2, key defence attitude and tactical nous lacking at critical moments, team clearly lacking intensity overall, and appearing complacent at the get go. (Similar pattern to last year's Tris). To explain this, there is surely something badly wrong with the culture, with mental toughness, and the deep roots of the will to win, every damn time. And I have this dark sense that Deans as a professional, as a person, may not be able to deal with this, lead a way out, and permanently fix it. Or at least not do so with the Australian Wallabies.

If I'm wrong come the gaining of international silverware back to the ARU this year, I will be thrilled to be wrong, and concede that I have misjudged this moment in transition. Honestly, my motives are rugby-patriotic, not aggressive in any way.

 

[rsea]

okay, I'm not great with long posts but let me look closer

paragraph 1 I agree

paragraph 2 - You bring into question the mental fortitude of the players fronting. I say these players are bring their best. I say they bring the right attitude and the will to win.

paragraph 3 - You say the Wallabies do not possess the relentlessness' to go on with the task. It's hard to judge at this stage if you are correct. Clearly the Wallabies lack a vital component right now that will result in a significant test of their abilities. If they were a full squad right now I believe they, as a whole would be tested and still found wanting. This may be seen as a failure but IMO it is an essential path to realising their potential and rising to glory in WC 2011. As it stands our depth will be tested and potentially another season of disappointment may await but without a front row it is impossible to tell what may have been.

paragraph 4 - I think the explanation here is simple in retrospect. We were lucky to get away with the first game and it couldn't be repeated. Without a competent scrum nothing else can function as it should. We beat the odds game 1 and perhaps if Giteau could kick, we would have done it again but we didn't. A necessary wake a call? I think so.

I am overly aggressive about my Rugby as I am with all things I love. I believe you when you say your motives are rugby-patriotic and I urge you to keep the faith. I believe Robbie is moving us in the right direction as I believe we were in a hole when he took the reigns. All will be told in 2011 but regardless of the outcome Australian Rugby will be by far the better for the Robbie Deans era.

 

[daz]

From a Foxsports article today. I'm sure this was not as bad as it sounds, but like Giteau's smile when missing a dead monty penalty goal, this is not really what i want to be reading:

"Deans joked he hadn't been brave enough to watch a video of Saturday night's defeat but said he was frustrated by the Wallabies' performance".

Smiles? Jokes? Gee, I wish someone had told me I was supposed to find all of this really funny.

 

[rsea]

Makes me wonder if we should be having a Giteau Report Card as well

 

[MrMouse]

Giteau's Report Card

F-Off.

Boom-tish.

 

[RedsHappy]

Makes me wonder if we should be having a Giteau Report Card as well

rsea, I know you were half joking, but it's a sound suggestion and worth discussing.

As I've noted elsewhere, Gits' actual performance and consistency in key, higher-pressure moments over the last 12 months is, on balance, of concern. Could be 'the Ponting syndrome' - great player in slow decline. Or it could be that he needs a year's sabbatical as a deep refresh. I also suspect that he and RD remain not the most compatible of souls. This is very speculative, but I actually worry that's he's starting to doubt himself. On all counts, hope I'm wrong and he has a stellar Tri-Nations.

 

[Reddy!]

Giteau, probably, but I don't think there is much debate there. He is clearly lucky to be in a test side at the moment.