Refereeing decisions

[waiopehu oldboy]

AB v Argentina this morning, AB are running it from inside their 22 & appear to have an unmarked Sevu Reece on the right. Last pass gets deliberately knocked on by an Argentine who had to jump to reach it. Gardiner gives a penalty but not YC. Why? Not saying Reece would necessarily have scored but an overlap is an overlap regardless of where on the field it occurs, surely.

 

[Gnostic]

AB v Argentina this morning, AB are running it from inside their 22 & appear to have an unmarked Sevu Reece on the right. Last pass gets deliberately knocked on by an Argentine who had to jump to reach it. Gardiner gives a penalty but not YC. Why? Not saying Reece would necessarily have scored but an overlap is an overlap regardless of where on the field it occurs, surely.

I saw that and it is a baffling one. If its a penalty its a YC. If its not a penalty its a scrum. As a penalty was awarded to my mind it was also a YC under current interpretations. In fact I think Gardiner admitted as much when he said to one of the ABs "good point" but the decision had been made and awarded and I supposed he had to follow on with that​

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Only seen a quick grab on TV news but in Samoa v USA today a Samoan appeared to kick the ball after a USA player passed it, the ball was regathered & a Samoan "scored" only for it to be called back as a knock-on. As I said I've only seen it once & very briefly but it seemed to come off the Samoan's boot not his knee or above so how is it a knock-on?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Anyway, since when is off the knee a knock on? Certainly not the way I understand a knock on which needs arms or hands or chest to be involved.

 

[Slim 293]

Anyway, since when is off the knee a knock on? Certainly not the way I understand a knock on which needs arms or hands or chest to be involved.

I'm certain even chest is fine............ the Canes scored a try in the SF after it bounced off the chest.

 

[Lindommer]

Ball has to go forward off arms up to shoulder to be a knock-on, head, neck and torso are OK. The parts of the Laws which call for a kick mean from the knee down. Ref in the Samoa/Septic match should be admonished for not knowing the basic Laws.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I'm going to try to find some video of this. Don't wanna hang the ref on the basis of ~2 seconds of TV news footage but to me it looked like the Samoan's boot was well clear of the rest of his body so it had to be a kick & no chance it came anywhere near his hands. Arguably cost them the game, too, so wouldn't be surprised if we hear more about it in coming days.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm certain even chest is fine.... the Canes scored a try in the SF after it bounced off the chest.

That's what I've also always thought Slim, but rarely see it officiated in games.

 

[Gnostic]

An interesting point of discussion this one, it wasn't penalised in the game.

Arg v SA 35 min. Etsbeth jumps over the tackle of Matera. He has done this in the past.

To my mind this is dangerous play as any contact is likely to cause him to be up ended, and this has happened in the past. To my mind it is a contravention of Law 9 (11).

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

Etzebeth jumped into the tackle at least three times that game - earning a penalty for one of the times that lead to a try for the Boks. How come Poite wasn't pulling him up on it?

Reminded me of this:

 

[Strewthcobber]

I hate it, but the laws don't really make a strong case to reverse the penalty.

9.11 Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.

9.17 A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.

 

[Gnostic]

I hate it, but the laws don't really make a strong case to reverse the penalty.



9.11 Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.



9.17 A player must not tackle, charge, pull, push or grasp an opponent whose feet are off the ground.

I honestly think it has to come under the reckless part of Law 9(11) and will make some enquiries with some senior Refs and Development Officers.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Not a refereeing decision as such but WR (World Rugby) have moved with unusual haste after Ringinland conceded a try to Wales who were able to play on while a man up* as a blood-bin sub was being completed:

https://www.world.rugby/news/444384

* They were actually two up as a non-injury sub was also being made at the time, this Law change doesn't address that. Is there another Law that does but which the match officials didn't enforce? Or was it just quick thinking / good timing on Wales' part?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Not a refereeing decision as such but WR (World Rugby) have moved with unusual haste after Ringinland conceded a try to Wales who were able to play on while a man up* as a blood-bin sub was being completed:

https://www.world.rugby/news/444384

* They were actually two up as a non-injury sub was also being made at the time, this Law change doesn't address that. Is there another Law that does but which the match officials didn't enforce? Or was it just quick thinking / good timing on Wales' part?

Not quite. England player was being assessed for an HIA. While this was happening the ref watched the big screen and eventually gave a winger a yellow for deliberate knock on. While both those players were still on the pitch (but coming off), Wales restarted quickly with a cross field kick and went on to score.

They actually kicked towards the player jogging off with his yellow which is interesting in itself. Need a ruling on that one too before long I suspect.

The HIA sub ruling is just sensible, as long as teams don't try and game it.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

NZ v SA last night. Mapimpi makes a try-saving tackle on Mo'unga but then doesn't release. Play continues under advantage then Garces comes back for Mapimpi's indiscretion & asks TMO for a jersey number. At this point I'm thinking Yellow card all day long & maybe a penalty try.

Question: in assessing the possibility of a PT, at what point does Mapimpi get treated as not being there? He can't fail to release if he doesn't make the tackle, if he doesn't make the tackle Mo'unga scores. What am I missing?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

What am I missing?

It all happened too fast for Garces and going back he thought sacre bleu it's just another tackle therefore gallic shrug and cest la vie baby

 

[Strewthcobber]

NZ v SA last night. Mapimpi makes a try-saving tackle on Mo'unga but then doesn't release. Play continues under advantage then Garces comes back for Mapimpi's indiscretion & asks TMO for a jersey number. At this point I'm thinking Yellow card all day long & maybe a penalty try.

Question: in assessing the possibility of a PT, at what point does Mapimpi get treated as not being there? He can't fail to release if he doesn't make the tackle, if he doesn't make the tackle Mo'unga scores. What am I missing?

he "disappears" at the point the foul play is committed. TV ref thought there were enough Boks back to eliminate the PT possibility.

I reckon yellow for deliberate infringement - a professional foul. Should be more of them at top level

7 A player must not:
a) Intentionally infringe any law of the game.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ yeah, thought it would be a bit rough to pretend the bloke never made the tackle. Disagree re: there being enough cover, though, I reckon if Mapimpi releases Mo'unga pop-passes to the support runner who just as surely scores. Happy it wasn't a PT & while a card should have resulted in knida glad it didn't 'cos that's probably the game decided right there.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Poey took a quick throw that went beyond the 15m line to Kerevi coming off his try line.

Do the opposition have to get back 10m before advancing, especially beyond the 15m line?

What's the offside line from a quick throw in?

 

[Bullrush]

Phil Kearns is such an idiot....listening to him defend Hodge's high, no arms hit on Yato by saying that Hodge came off worse is just disgusting.

Yato failed his HIA and was out for the rest of the game with possible concussion and Hode played on and scored a try....FML

Should have been a yellow minimum, red if at all consistent with recent rulings.